Technical Um, What is this in my oil pan?!!

So I’m in process of seeing if I can revive a 52 8BA flathead and dropped the oil pan today to clean the sludge and check it out…

Not good news as I found these 3 chunks of metal (image attached) that used to be a 1” disc that’s maybe a hair shy of 1/8” thick. One side looks like it was highly polished and the other looks like it was exposed to heat. On the heat side there seems to be a small groove near the outer edge. It almost looks like a valve bucket shim to me.

My question is what is it and where do I start looking for the fourth piece? The motor spins freely with no odd sounds so I’m (maybe too optimistically) hoping that someone slapped the drain pan on without cleaning out the old sludge. The oil was black, no shiny stuff, when I drained but the well attached (almost taffy like) sludge was grey and maybe silvery once I started scraping it out.

Advice and suggestions greatly appreciated as this is my first time tearing in to a car engine. Thanks

 

Is it magnetic?

 

The pieces are not a magnet if that’s what you’re thinking, unfortunately. They are ferrous though as a magnet will pick them up.

 

Some times folks would plug the heat riser hole in the bottom of the manifold using a penny. Does yours compare in size to a penny?

 

Bottom of a hollow lifter? Does it look like it was broken off of a cylinder shaped thing?

 

It looks in the pics that it is thicker in the middle than it is at the edge. If so, that would rule out a penny.

 

Thicker and bigger than a penny or nickel. 1” diameter and just shy of 1/8” thick.

 

Same thickness all over. Like a 32nd shy of 1/8”

 

No, it looks like it was just a disc… like nickel but bigger.

 

Could it be what’s left of a destroyed valve?

 

Tim may have it.

 

That was my first thought but I don’t think so. The edges are perfectly square to the surfaces and the surfaces are flat and parallel. A valve head is tapered.

 

Maybe a lifter bottom as stated above. Check all the lifters, if one did come apart I don't think the cam appreciated it..

 

Water passage plug when using different heads?

 

I just checked and lifters are 1” so that’s not encouraging. It’s just crazy to think it could break off so cleanly… it’s looking like the prime suspect though so I’ll have to check them out.

 

You mention this is your first attempt at tearing into an engine, and based on what you're describing, I'd see if you have someone in your circle of friends who has a little more experienced to come over and get a 2nd set of eyes on the engine. That's far cheaper than have a Machine Shop take a look, but I would definitely tear that engine down to eliminate the likely suspects. At least get everything cleaned and hot-tanked. Then re-assess. Have you visually checked the block for cracks? That alone could condemn this engine to the money-pit category.

~Peter

 

I'm thinking the bottom of a lifter which measures about one inch in diameter Not much else inside the 59 that size.
Ronnieroadster

 

@Frames . Dennis Frings would be a good man to talk to. He's in Concord, 704 788 8225

 

I had some pieces a lot like that in the pan of a Yblock. Also had #1 exhaust with .25” clearance instead of .019”. Mushroom lifter fractured the head off, found all 3 pieces in the pan. Funny looking grove in the cam lobe. Sorry if I ruined your day, I don’t know anything about flathead cams or lifters.

 

Just crawled out from under it and I found the fourth piece of the circle… still attached to the lifter. Bummer, what started out as seeing if this motor would run is turning in to a complete tear down. Was hoping to put that off for a while.

I moved to a new state just before the pandemic so I don’t really have any friends here let alone any car friends. I’ve never been this deep in to a motor before but I’ve rebuilt cars and motorcycles before and I’ve completely rebuilt transfer cases and a turbo 350 trans so I’m not completely inexperienced. I didn’t want to do it yet but I guess I’ll be tearing this down now.

Yep, it was.

I’ve actually know who you’re talking about but I don’t know him personally.

Thanks for all the help/input guys, you got me there even if it wasn’t the result I wanted. Guess I’ll be learning about rebuilding a flathead sooner than I wanted.

 

I hate that this happened to you, but I really like that a bunch of really supportive folks helped you find your problem.

 

Just hope that the block is not cracked .

 

I bought some stuff from Frings before, he was great to work with. Time to introduce yourself.

 

The real bummer is when you tear it all apart to get back on track, and find out it's cracked all to hell. Flathead's are cool, but hard to find a good block these days

 

Thanks for all the help & support guys! Now let me know what you think about this idea;

I can get a new lifter for two bucks at Dennis Carpenter… I can see no damage in the bottom end other than the one cam lobe of the offending intake lifter, which has a new profile with less lift and longer duration now. What happens if I pop in a new lifter and continue trying to get it running? The goal wouldn’t be to run long term like that, it would be to get it running so the overall health of the other components could be determined. Then if everything else seems decent, I could go through the hassle & expense of a new cam and lifters.

Is that reasonable or crazy?

 

The cam will continue to eat itself and you'll just have more debris working through the engine, I guess it depends how much more work you'd like to give yourself. I would advise against this because flatheads do not have much oil filtration, if any, and so you'd end up having to do the entire rotating assembly as well once the mains and rods get some grit in them.

 

Weight slug for balancing the crank?

 

Slugs on flatheads are under 3/4" diameter, most are 1/2".


In regards to cam life, @Pocket Nick is right, once the outer layer of the cam lobe is worn, the layers underneath tend to fail rather quickly. Flatheads don't do particularly well with metal debris floating around. I would once again recommend a full teardown and cleaning of the engine. Teardown costs you nothing at all, and cleaning fees shouldn't be too much compared to a full rebuild. Just remember that you'll have to buy new cam bearings if they hot-tank the block.

Can you post pics of the Block-Head Surface? Several here have been right to caution about cracks in the block, and all this discussion might be in vain if we can visually a problem.

~Peter

 

I figured that was the answer. The heads are still on it right now so I can’t take pictures of the block surface. I guess I’ll just put the oil pan back on and just use this motor for mock up for now since it’s already mated to the trans and in the frame. I can start getting the body mounted and the wishbone mounts figured out and in the mean time I have another 8BA that I can start tearing down to see if it’s a candidate for rebuilding. If it’s solid I’ll start that process and if it’s not I’ll have to tear down the one currently in the frame. Thanks guys.

 

@Jax2A

If you don't have any books on the flathead, and there are several, and are inclined to get one I've always liked Bishop's.