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Technical FE engine shopping advice

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by AldeanFan, Nov 27, 2022.

  1. AldeanFan
    Joined: Dec 12, 2014
    Posts: 892

    AldeanFan

    I am casually looking for an FE for a project and I need to learn more about them.

    A friend of a friend may have some engines for sale but I wouldn’t know what to look for.

    I know they are expensive to build but that’s about all I know.

    do parts interchange between the various FE’s?
    Are there any versions I should stay away from?

    Goals would be 350hp
     
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  2. Last edited: Nov 27, 2022
  3. MeanGene427
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Posts: 2,307

    MeanGene427
    Member
    from Napa

    They are not particularly expensive to build for a mild engine like a 390. A 360 can be made into a 390 or 410 with stock parts, the 410/416 is the best bang for the buck, using the 410/428 crank and the 390 pickup pistons which are repurposed 410 pistons and are cheap. A set of C1AE or C4AE-G or C6AE-R heads with Low Riser/ Cobra Jet valves will do nicely, or aluminum if budget allows. A Streetmaster, Street Dominator, Performer RPM, Port-O-Sonic or Police Interceptor intake with a 780 Holley will get your 416 to that power level easily, with tons 'a torque
     

  4. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 14,802

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    390 Fords, 383 Mopars, the lower HP 396 Chevrolets, and 389 Pontiacs were all on the same par in the mid 60’s and were the basis for muscle cars. There are many sites for each. Like said above a lot can be done on a Ford with parts interchangeability’s. I would work to keep the weight down on an FE where I could…the first being the intake.
    350 hp was inline with most stock factory engines but those were the days of higher compression and hi octane gasoline. Mom & Pop cars were all-lower compression right near 300hp. Today I believe we have better ignitions, valves if needed and valve springs. Good luck.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2022
  5. oldiron 440
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 3,301

    oldiron 440
    Member

    I would think a cam, intake and carb with the correct timing and a set of headers will easily you past your goal of 350hp. Edelbrock makes a complete top end kit for the FE that would be worth considering.
     
  6. MeanGene427
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Posts: 2,307

    MeanGene427
    Member
    from Napa

    The RPM intake is the best part of that "kit", the cam is nothing special, and there are much better heads than the Edelbrocks these days, but the Edelbrocks would make that power point- as would the iron head setups I described
     
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  7. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 6,442

    Boneyard51
    Member

    Short version, you want a 360 or 390 block, if you cannot find a 428 or 427, the later are hard to find and expensive. Look at the casting numbers on the heads, there are a ton of FE heads. All are good, some are better and some are great!
    Like mentioned, start with a 360/390 block and build what ever you want from there!






    Bones
     
  8. The 428 is counterbalanced, the others are neutral balanced as I remember. Most generally, the only good way to know what you have is to pull a head and measure bore and stroke. The exception is if there is cross bolted mains that are visible on a 427. Most of the old engines are going to be wore out so be prepared for a rebuild. Most of the heads are marginal at best. If you find flow charts on them you will see that the numbers aren't too good. I had a long history with these as a young man. I can verify that the cast iron intake needs to go. :) Good luck with your search.
     
  9. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 13,174

    Budget36
    Member

    See that little speck of dust in the corner? That’s what I know about FEs;). But if the cost of a rebuild between a 360 and 390 is the same, I’d think it is easier to make 350HP with the 390 vs the 360. Ie maybe a touch less CR and milder cam.
    Oh, that speck of dust? When I helped my friend pull his intake on a 390, or was t a 352? Can’t recall. But that speck of dust was heavy!
     
  10. AldeanFan
    Joined: Dec 12, 2014
    Posts: 892

    AldeanFan

    Great information! This is very helpful.
     
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  11. Truckedup
    Joined: Jul 25, 2006
    Posts: 4,661

    Truckedup
    Member

    A 390 with a good 325 hp would be an not expensive engine to build.9-1 compression, moderate cam,600 cfm carb, good valve job and careful tuning..Forget how they rated these engines when new.. more like 260 hp than 300 claimed....
     
  12. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,715

    carbking
    Member

    350 HP from a 390 CID is not difficult, especially today.

    For some reason unknown to me, FE's seem to be less picky about octane than GM engines. Mine is quite happy on 87 octane unless either pulling the 16' car trailer, or being driven in anger ;)

    I agree with Jimmy Six about reducing weight; that cast iron intake weighs a few ounces short of a ton (OK, maybe a slight exaggeration). I replaced mine with an Offy 2x4 aluminum, 2 Carter AFB's, and still saved a lot of weight.

    Jon
     
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  13. stuart in mn
    Joined: Nov 22, 2007
    Posts: 2,406

    stuart in mn
    Member

    The majority of FE blocks will have '352' stamped on them, so when shopping for an engine you can't go by that to determine the displacement.
     
  14. 0NE BAD 51 MERC
    Joined: Nov 12, 2010
    Posts: 1,783

    0NE BAD 51 MERC
    Member

    A number of years back I picked up a 70 f250 with what was supposed to be the factory 390. Long story short when we tore it down it was a 360. Overall, it was in good shape. Bored it 30 over, some Keith Black pistons, a Crane cam that was close to cobra jet spec's and freshened up the heads with new valves and springs and it made all the power and torque the 57 Ranch wagon it went into needed to blast down the road while hauling a vintage travel trailer at the same time. The 360s get a bad rap, high performance monster's they're not. But they would not have been in a gazillion trucks if they weren't tough! Obviously a 390,406 ,427 or 428 are the desirable ones. If you're looking to go racing, then get an aluminum head 460 crate motor. Thats what most of the so-called nostalgia Super Stock guys are doing anyhow. Larry
     
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  15. MeanGene427
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Posts: 2,307

    MeanGene427
    Member
    from Napa

    Virtually nobody rebuilds one back to 360 these days as it is so easy to go bigger with a 390 or 410, as they all use the 4.05 bore block. As I said the 410/416 setup is the best bang for the buck if you can find a 3.98 crank (there are new ones available). The 352/ 360 have different rods than the larger engines, .050 longer and skinnier beams, but the standard 390/410/428 rods are plentiful. The 390-2V pistons were advertised as 9.5-1 compression and are pretty tolerant of low octane gas
     
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  16. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 6,442

    Boneyard51
    Member

    The FE is my engine of choice, after I saw my very first one in 1959! At seven years old I though that was the biggest engine in the world! Still like it today!
    The FE is probably the most versatile engine ever made! One version of it will pull your truck down the road with a loaded trailer with ease! Another version of it won the 24 hours of LeMans! But with all these versions, there are some complications! There is even an FT version in big trucks that shares the block, but few other parts. Over the years, I have built many FE engines, but have never had the privilege of building a 427…and yes it is a privilege to build one of those engines!
    I am currently building, probably my last of many FEs. Hopefully the most powerful one for me! Not a screamer but a good puller. I am starting with a 1966 428 Super Maurader, boring it .030 , stroking it to 4.25 for 462 cubic inches, cam similar to CJ, iron heads as it will never see any rpm over what the stock C6 with a mild stall converter will let it run, under 5000, three deuces and cast iron long tube exhaust manifolds. This will all go into my avatar car with 3:50 rear gears with 31 spline axles.
    This is my project and dream, but if I don’t pick up the pace….the grim reaper is going to win!






    Bones
     
  17. MeanGene427
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Posts: 2,307

    MeanGene427
    Member
    from Napa

    I got bitten really hard in '67 when a gentleman named Ed Lowther let me sit in his 427 Cobra at the Glen 500 road race, with it running- the race required a pit stop and driver change, and he was practicing the switch with Dr. Dick Thompson, "The Flying Dentist". Saw my standing there with my mouth hanging open and waved me over- I still have the race program. Also got to ride in a '64 Galaxie 500 with a 427-8V that same summer, ran out of road at 110- first experience with glorious "intake roar"

    EW2.jpg
     
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  18. The FE is a great motor, as said it's very versatile. Aftermarket support has never been better even as core motor supply is getting skimpier. Stroker kits are available for budget 445" versions based on 360/390 blocks from multiple vendors, this will build a torque monster for great street performance. Intake manifolds are still expensive though...

    It's main shortcoming IMO is the lack of transmission choices. As the only Ford '50s era motor design to survive beyond 1964, there's only two OEM automatic transmissions that bolt up; the HP-limited Cruisomatic/FMX or the bulletproof-but-mileage-killing C6. Use of any more modern choices will require expensive adaptors.

    Manual trans choices are tougher. Ford built basically three manual bellhousing types for these; the '58-64 narrow-pattern bells that limits you to pre-'65 boxes (although you can get some adaptors for these), and the '65-70 car bells and '65-76 truck bells. The early bells are still findable as they're not all that popular. The newer car bells are rare and expensive when you do find them and still use the shorter '50s input shaft length. That leaves the truck bells. These are still relatively common and inexpensive, use the 'standard' '65-up input shaft but don't have quite full engagement with the clutch hub because they're .350" deeper than the car bell. It doesn't seem to be an issue on anything but race cars as virtually all the trucks used this with no reported ill effects. One advantage of the truck bell is it will accept a 11" clutch, not many of the car bells will do this. Goin' racin', get a scattersheild to eliminate this issue.

    Two minor details. Ford added motor mount bosses to the block over the years, starting with two, added a third for cars in the '60s and yet another for trucks. The later blocks will retrofit back mount-wise, but the earlier ones won't always go forward. And exhaust manifold bolt patterns were also added to. All heads have an 8-bolt vertical pattern, Ford added additional bolts for the Mustang/Fairlane/Torino, you'll find both 14 and 16 bolt patterns. You'll usually find the latter patterns on the 'better' GT and CJ heads.

    And they're not as heavy as some people make them out to be. Actually lighter than a BBC and 429/460 as-is, use an aluminum intake, heads and water pump and you can knock 100 lbs off it's weight. But those cast-iron intakes are a back-breaker....
     
  19. AldeanFan
    Joined: Dec 12, 2014
    Posts: 892

    AldeanFan

    Awesome information.
    Sounds like a good recipe is any block with a 390 crank and aluminum intake and appropriate cam.

    there is a 352 drivetrain for-sale not far from home. It’s complete from carb to 9” rearend. I may have to go check it out.
     
  20. I put a 390 out of a '68 mustang in my F100 years ago. Factory stock h.p. was 325. 350 should be simple to attain.
     
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  21. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 6,442

    Boneyard51
    Member

    Just a little clarification, not all heads have the exact same eight bolt pattern. The so called” GT” heads have a unique bolt pattern and regular FE headers and exhaust manifolds will not fit. That is one of the many things folks need to look out for while building an FE.
    I ran into this problem , back 25 years ago when I built a 416 for this truck!





    35CA260F-0B40-4612-B03D-EB258C2EE196.jpeg






    Bones
     
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  22. FrozenMerc
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 3,093

    FrozenMerc
    Member

    Don't be afraid of picking up a 352. They are very good engines, and can often be had for cheap since everyone wants the bigger cubic inch FE's. I built the 352 in my '62 Merc with the following recipe.

    352 + 0.030" over bore.
    Elgin 966 Hydraulic cam
    9.5:1 compression
    Edelbrock Heads
    Performer RPM Intake
    600 CFM Holley
    Shorty FPA Headers
    Stock rotating assembly.

    Nothing fancy, and fairly easy on the wallet, and would have been even cheaper if the original heads had been salvageable.

    This netted a 325 hp, 375 ft-lbs of torque, motor with a stupid flat torque curve (it pulls over 300 ft-lbs from 2500 rpm to over 5500 rpm).

    Add a bit more cam and compression and 350 hp would be no problem.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2022
  23. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 6,442

    Boneyard51
    Member

    My first encounter with an FE was way less glamorous than yours! It was 1959 , I was seven , and looked at a 352 in my neighbor’s new 1959 Ford Galaxie! I though thst 352 had to be the biggest and most powerful engine in the world! As the biggest engine we had on the ranch at that time was a 292 Y-block! Been fond of them ever since! Currently own about ten of them!






    Bones
     
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  24. Relic Stew
    Joined: Apr 17, 2005
    Posts: 1,208

    Relic Stew
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    The pickup truck 360 is a 390 block and pistons, 352 crank and rods. The pistons end up around .10" below deck, which gives 8.5 compression with flat tops. The lack of quench really hurts the performance potential, but the block is as good as any 390 for a stroker rebuild.
    Medium duty 361 and 391 have forged cranks, but the snout is larger diameter than the light duty engines.
     
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  25. MeanGene427
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Posts: 2,307

    MeanGene427
    Member
    from Napa

    And the pickup 390's used the 410 pistons for the same reason, and the cheap replacement .030 pistons makes the 416 a very economical option
     
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  26. I like the thought of strokers but don't forget that the reason for the cross bolted blocks were the blocks were breaking. Several of my friends that bought new 428 cobra jets had their engines replaced under warranty because the block failed. If you build a strong engine and really use it, you may get a surprise. Not saying to not do it, just don't forget what history showed us. :)
     
  27. X2 on the 352.
    One of the best engines I ever had.
    Don’t be scared of a 360 at a good price. Same block as a 390.
    I’ve had a couple 360s. Did what it was supposed to do. But not the same as the 352 or 390 as far as power
     
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  28. onetrickpony
    Joined: Sep 21, 2010
    Posts: 753

    onetrickpony
    Member
    from Texas

    360 and 390 versions are the most common. Either can be fitted with a stroker crank to build a monster 445. Tons of torque and great power. Lots of aftermarket heads available, too.
     
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  29. Don't forget Ford had a 360 h.p. 352 in 1960.
     

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