Thanks, man. Going to go dual updrafts on the Miller initially, but I'm sure we'll fool around with downdrafts on this or another car eventually. Floaters or stock parts?
Dual updrafts work but the point I was making is there was a lot more going on prewar then most people realized. There were high compression heads when A's were new. Winfield offered complete kits, head, intake plus carb. Riley and others had OHV heads. My 4 port is 1935. One of the first 29 body on a 32 frame was 1937. They were starting to drop axles in 37 but it didn't take off until after the war. Check out these two photos. Robert Stack's car in 38 and this roadster from 41. The 41 photo shows Auburn dash, banjo wheel, 16 inch wheels plus 39 blue dot tail lights. A very well done car and both perwar.
Absolutely. It really is impressive what was available in the ‘30s for the guy that wanted to wrench. And available even earlier in the 1920s. The variety of what’s out there is truly wonderful, and I’m certainly still learning. It’ll be fun to try different parts and build up different motors. For this one the path seems to be the Miller dual updraft intake with a pair of A carbs. I have Tillotsons coming, but not locked in on those. Model B distributor. Last major consideration is a high compression head. I’d really like to stay with vintage parts, but I do need to keep an eye on my overall budget to make this achievable. A “B” head or maybe some off brand. Or a repaired Winfield. Non-vintage, Snyder’s 6:1 seems like a win. I’ve always liked the Stack car. And that roadster has a tremendous amount of leading edge style trends for ‘41. That’s pretty darn neat. Great examples. I FINALLY have some time off coming up. Hope to get the front end of whichever chassis I choose to build set up with the ‘32 axle, ‘32 brakes, and dropped spring. I’ll feel darn good if I can get that done by the end of the month.
Quick questions… How tight should kingpins be in spindle bushings? Any suggestions on how to remove the front spring without leaving Spencer and Nora orphaned? Anyone have experience with Stromberg UPdraft carbs? And a comment… holy cow shipping iron drums is breathtaking! Those… may need to wait until spring unless I can find something local.
You need a front spring spreader. Now of course, for purposes of liability and avoiding a lawsuit from Nora, I would always recommend a professionally made spring spreader. But purely for demonstration purposes , here are pictures of a homemade one that I may or may not have borrowed from @Hitchhiker to do my front spring. Appears to be two sections of crimped conduit with threaded rod in the middle. Once I got it out (hypothetically ), I would have carefully unsprung the main leaf, then put two C-clamps on either side of the thru-bolt, carefully loosened the bolt, then carefully loosened each clamp a little at a time until everything eased apart.
Thanks, Clark! Wonderful! For… the stocker! The phaeton chassis has a reverse eye main…. I may have failed to mention that… the phaeton has one of those reverse eye springs with the slider buttons. I plan to use the reversed main with springs from the stock spring pack to get the front where it needs to go. Should have stole conduit cutoffs from work an hour ago… there’s a dumpster full…
I install and remove all reverse eye springs front or rear as main leaf only, then build or deconstruct the pack from there. I recommend 2 pieces of 6-8 inch long 2x4 scraps. Two good quality 8-10 inch c clamps. And a piece of all thread of appropriate size and corresponding nuts. The 2x4's are used on the axle next to the perches and under the shackles. One to keep the 1st shackle from moving towards the perch during install and another for the other side to slide on and get it close to where it needs to go. Basically keeping the shackles horizontal during install. Once the main leaf is on you can take them out. The rear is worse than the front, as far as difficulty. Hook up one end to the shackle. I recommend sitting on the rear spring to compress it. Having another hand here is really helpful. It has further to go than the front. The front can be done with arm strength. If it's a actual reverse eye spring made from an original, it's actual eye to eye measurement will be slightly longer, so won't take much to effort to install. But your shackle angle will suck. An aftermarket correct length one takes a little more effort, but isn’t hard. I have also tried using a ratchet strap on the rear spring, which works decent. I just like to get it done quickly though. So I sit on it. Once it's on the shackles just clamp the pack together with 2 good c clamps and use a piece of all thread to keep it in line. I highly recommend good American made clamps here. I have used some cheap chinese husky brand clamps, and they have a lot of deflection. Reverse process for removal. I'll usually just remove one shackle and knock it off with a hammer once it's just a main leaf left. I've often thought of making a bolt around clamp that goes around a reverse eye spring. So they are easier go take apart and put together whole. I think I've told @ClarkH this as well, but it sounds worse than it is. Maybe I've just done enough that I'm desensitized. Ive set 2 off 1 on accident and 1 on purpose. They had less stored energy than I would have thought. It's not gonna go through the roof when you separate the main leaf. Even the full pack has less power then I would have thought. Don't take that as "it won't hurt you" just that it isn't gonna spring 4 stories high or anything like that.
Geez that’s a good write up. Ok. I can do this. Nora knows 911. And how to laugh at Daddy. It’s just the fronts.
Today, a bit of progress… it comes in small spoonfuls. We got a box from Hitchhiker at Seattle Speed Shop with some needed parts and… well I mentioned the intake above. We didn’t need that. But. You know. Front end is out from under the Phaeton chassis. It took one hour to pull that front end from finding the jack stands to pulling it out. My autistic son timed me… And gave me warnings. "4 minutes until one hour, Dad. Are y'a going to make it?" “This isn’t a race, son. We aren’t in a hurry or on a schedule.” “Warning! 3 minutes!” “Spencer, you’re throttling my anxiety. I don’t want to drop this car.” “WARNING! WARNING! 2 minutes!” “Spence!” I made it. One hour. But it wasn’t a race.
Thanks, Bill! We’re plugging away! Rain today and I’m packing to head to the cabin for the weekend. In between I’m making some Jalopy lists and realizing there are a few potential budget-buster items: 1. Shocks. Holy moly!! 2. Tires. 3. Cast iron rear drums with shipping. Sheesh! I’m sure we’ll come up with a plan to overcome. I may need some guidance on assessing the bias ply tires I have. Two are definitely no good… Nora “polished” them… with parts cleaner. Under the supervision of Samantha. “We’ll it says ‘cleaner’ right on the can!”
This… …was way lower stress than I anticipated. And just so everyone understands the level of insanity I dedicate to projects… last night I started to survey tire tread and sidewall patterns for prewar cars… I’m not sure how we’ll stay within budget, but we WILL have period correct tires.
Sadly, before this projects' time-period, are the tires that literally have the word No-Skid as the tread pattern. The history behind them is amusing - guy was told to make some no skid tires, & he did just that... . Amusingly enough, as a tread pattern for the day(when most tires had little or none), they worked well & sales took off. . Almost nobody knows what they are, & when seen, the viewers' mouth is usually open for awhile. . But like most every other tire around, they aren't cheap. ;( . Marcus...
Quick questions… How tight should kingpins be in spindle bushings? Anyone have experience with Stromberg UPdraft carbs? I’m thinking on options for a pair of something to run on the Miller intake. I managed to pick a Stromberg SF-1 up, but two issues… 1. This particular one seems to have been made for a stationary engine or maybe ag machinery. And 2. It’s really heavy. I have serious pause about hanging two of these on an aluminum intake. But it IS a damn neat carburetor. A pair of Winfield S updrafts someday. Until then…? Matt sent a couple good Tillotson JR(?) cores, but I’m still thinking…
Can't help you much but take a look at Blockley tyres, they are a UK company, different to pie crust but peroid....
I do love my Blockleys. Been out today on them in the rain. They are crossplies but they are L section, so a lower profile than a similar size by other manufacturers.
I ran a Tillotson carb on my Fordor for a while. Used to run out of fuel on spirited right hand turns…
I’ll keep Blockleys in mind. Not sure what North America availability is… thanks for chiming in. I guess I need to decide if I’m going to roll on 19” or 17”/18” wheels first… The Firestones I have are the best of the lot and they look like this. This is my first go with bias ply tires and tube, and, well… my kids are going to ride in this heap, soooo… Carbs… I’m calling these carbs Tillotsons, but they aren’t the ‘Model X’ most think of. These are different. I’m searching, and these are either a different Tillotson or a Marvel-Shebler. Looks like Marvel. “Interwebs opinions” seem all over on the Marvels… from absolute garbage to the best Model A updraft to ever invented.
There was someone on here recently who had bought Blockley's in the US but I'm not sure if the bought them locally or had them shipped...?? @hotrodfil I had wondered if you had personal experience with them. I'm considering running them on my A.
I think they will, brother. I found rebuild kits and gaskets available at Renner’s. Marvels. We’re gonna fly.
I saw the tire survey and thought maybe we are all on the spectrum somewhere. This hobby can be consuming, but details make the difference and give satisfaction. I am learning a lot through these posts, keep up the good work, lots of us are benefiting. I am picking up a 28 rpu and spare running gear shortly, you are providing inspiration.
Brother, you have no idea how I can get into the details of historical research! One of my other interests is the 1750s along the Susquehanna frontier here in Pennsylvania. In order to be as accurate as possible for a future impression of a fella living in the time, I’ve done things such as: Create a database of clothing that appears in period paintings to see how prevalent certain colors and combinations of colors were. Hand-sewed a wagoner smock from linen that took 40 hours and over 25,000 tiny hand stitches to produce. Researched the word “rifle” in period texts to see when rifle-barreled arms started to become common among European colonials and Indians along the frontier. I’ve also researched some obscure narrow gauge railroads here and have been able to map old photographs. It goes on and on. The answer is always to return to primary sources. Don’t build a copy of a copy of a copy. For this jalopy, I’m drawing some inspiration from modern builds, but to get it “right” I’m trying to stay with the historical record. Zach Suhr mentioned to me yesterday that I should consider 18” or 17” wheels for this car rather than the 19”s I have. Sure enough, if you look at prewar lakes images, by about 1935 Model A-based cars were running a smaller wheel and by about 1938 16” was pretty standard. So… if I’m placing this build around 1935 in California, 17” wheels should be on my build sheet. Note “in California”… place means something. We’ll get to that. I won’t lie. A hoped-for “greater purpose” for this build and thread was to provide inspiration to others and hope we can all learn something as Spencer and I build this achievable Soup Job. Maybe there’s a book in here somewhere. Or a booklet. Pamphlet…?? Maybe…? Thanks for the kind words. The feedback in the thread and privately keep me motivated. We’re flying! I can’t believe it’s only been a little more than 2 months since I drug that first chassis home!
Hey, Ryan; I realize everyone wants "Californi", but the PA area has a very good history of boardtrackers, & circle-burners(looked like sprint cars[actually their predecessors] but raced on fairgrounds horsetracks & small dustbowls). The time period you're looking for would be perfect for a hotrod-based-on-the-older-&-then-racers, taking a lot of cues from them. Not so far apart, actually. If we weren't so far apart, I'd loan you my set of "Castor Fumes" newsletters that chronicle the early times. At least as intense as Cali, just isn't as well known now. & the boardtracks were impressive, & iirc from readings, more numerous than in CA. Afaik, this of course changed when the big $$$ went away in the middle 30's(at the latest) for sure. Eventually, Formula Junk became the norm, mostly out of necessity. Marcus... PS: sent you a pm.
Ryan, I've been lurking on the build thread over the past few weeks- nice job on both the research and the execution!!! Talk with carbking about updrafts- he will steer you straight
Thanks, brother. We’re plugging along. I’ve chatted with Jon. He put me onto the updraft Strombergs. I like the one I was able to grab a lot. Neat carbs but it may be a while until I can track down a suited pair. And still… they are HEAVY. Like… I’d absolutely hesitate to hang a pair on this aluminum intake. Seriously. We shall see. Marvel-Sheblers in hand. Still on the lookout for other cool stuff to consider.
The Jalopy Journal
