I'm rebuilding a Ford 226 engine. This engine was previously rebuilt and with the help of a couple of people with a lot more engine knowledge than me we have checked out the engine and all machining surfaces are within tolerance. But, it needs new rings and bearings. I am getting the parts I need but the ring grooves are worn slightly larger than required. It has been suggested I use spacer rings to take up the extra space. I have a person who can clean up the grooves with his lathe but I need the spacers. I have quite a few posts here and on other forums about using spacer rings but can't find a reliable source for them. Anyone have suggestions?
Is it being rebuilt again because of a problem with the ring grooves? If so, I think I would save myself a lot of grief and have it fitted for new pistons.
Is there an off the shelf thicker ring available? Then you could have your friend open up the ring lands to match?
What are the future plans for this engine? Will someone drive it 100,000 miles? or more like 10,000? If it doesn't have to last forever, perhaps you could let the slightly out of spec ring grooves stay as they are, and just assemble it without machining or spacers. If you can see a step in the ring groove, showing the wear, then you might want to go ahead with your plans to either machine the pistons, or the suggestion to replace them. If no step, then they're probably OK to use until the next overhaul, long in the future...
4 bucks ea according to Otto's. https://www.ringspacers.com/ringcost.htm Used to be a common thing, there is even a special hand held tool to cut the grooves. Like this https://www.ebay.com/itm/292216001473 And you could use a later, thinner modern ring instead of \ older cast iron if desired.
I just placed the order for the parts, rings, bearings, valves, valve springs, valve guides and gasket set from Falcon Performance. I found them on eBay. They had pretty decent pricing and had all of the parts I needed while the other go to suppliers for old Ford parts only had a few parts each. I did a search to find out more about Falcon before buying and I found quite a few HAMB posts from almost twenty years ago until now offering good experiences with them. I figure is a supplier is crappy the HAMB would eat them up and spit them out. One thing that impressed me about the place was they returned phone calls, not many places will do that. I just placed the order and asked them if they happened to carry the spacers or thicker rings, they don't carry either and told me finding parts for the 226's 3 1/4" pistons isn't easy. He told me they had a set of six new, .06 over pistons for a little over $300, if I can't find a suitable spacer I'll probably go with new pistons. $300 might seem like much but I have already dropped $1200 in the parts I ordered. This project just keeps growing. This is just an engine for an old truck I've had for over 40 years, I drive it maybe 5000K a year. It's not a Hi-po engine. I also called Otto's this morning. The guy seemed like an ass. He wasn't very friendly and would only suggest getting new pistons. Very condescending I don't need to deal with his BS. Thanks to a few more knowledgeable people than me I have most of the tools I need to pull this rebuild off. Just haven't found the spacers. I did see a few HAMB posts where people used piston rings as spacers. I would need to find out what rings I could use. Thanks for the replies, I appreciate what everyone posts. Keep them coming
In the old days there was shim stock made just for this,,,,,,,reminded you of a slinky maybe . Like Hemihotrod said , Just use some of the thin rails from the oil ring spacer . You should have a few laying around from your old ring set ,,,,they will work fine . Tommy
Call a ring supplier/manufacture like Hastings. Ring packages like the ones which support because of pin locations may work. If your machinist is making the groove wider… the space between, land, is less and may make things worse.
I remember in tech school having a hand operated piston lathe to cut the ring grooves for spacers. Seems like it might have been from Perfect Circle. You might contact them about ring spacers.
I didn't know they came like a slinky, that's interesting. I just checked the old ring set, still in the piston, and the problem I see with them is they are too wide. From what I understand the spacer has to be the same width as the piston and not stick out past the edge of the piston, just like added material to the groove. Not much has to be taken off to true up the groove. I measured the gap on the worse piston and it came out at .027. The spacers I have been able to find are .030 thick. Unfortunately the spacers I have found so far are for high performance engine, which doesn't matter, but are for 4"+ pistons.
What exactly are you measuring here? pictures, drawings, sketches, help. Unfortunately we can't see over your shoulder.
Here's a picture of the width. Approx. 3 1/4" I found these after doing a little more searching: https://www.ebay.com/itm/134021332490?hash=item1f344b3e0a:g:PWoAAOSwHRhiBgfZ
That’s referred to as side clearance in the Engineering power culinary design parlance. Also, don’t use those ring expander plier like tools, at least not on chrome or plasma coated rings. They initiate micro cracks in the coating, at the ring tips, which, in turn, leads to chipping. I know I will get a lot of pushback on this, but we did a pretty thorough evaluation at the Oem engine lab where I spent my career.
The rings will wear a lot on the side, so you kind of need to measure with new rings to see how much clearance there really is. I would not expect to see that much clearance on a "previously rebuilt" engine, unless it had an awful lot of miles on it since the rebuild. How much taper is there in the cylinders? and what's the maximum piston to wall clearance now?
I had a machinist friend check the cylinders and the crank and everything checked out. Cylinders were round and no taper, .060 over on the cylinders and .010 under on the crank. There rings and bearings matched the measurements. This is a rebuilt engine I pulled out of parts truck about ten years ago. The truck was in pretty good condition rust wise except it had a caved in cab. The engine that is in my truck now isn't the original engine, I bought it used about 40 years ago and it's pretty worn, low compression and has a burnt exhaust valve which was the problem that started my on this adventure. That engine is rebuildable but needs machine work, the replacement engine doesn't but it needs new parts because they have started to show signs of wear and since I have it apart everything is getting replaced.
I'd take the rings out and look closely at the ring gooves. They usually wear more at the outer part, and the very bottom of the groove will not have any wear at all. If you put a ring in "backwards", that is, set the outer edge of the ring into the groove, then you are checking the groove with an unworn part of the ring. See how it fits that way. Pretty hard to describe this stuff over the internets, it's easier to show someone in person. Usually rings don't wear that much on the sides, without wearing the bore also, at least a few thouandths near the top of the bore.
I was told by someone with experience building engines that everything was good. He was backed up by another person who has build many engines professionally for 40 years so I'm pretty satisfied with what they said. I was on the search for the spacers and where you can get them.
Yeah, I know, I've been playing with engines for a long time too.....I haven't put one together since, uh, today. It's just that I've never used ring spacers. When the pistons are worn enough to need them, there are other things worn out that make me end up replacing the pistons. I'm trying to get a better idea of how much wear there is everywhere on the engine, but it's pretty difficult. Good luck...
Before you go one step further you need to stop taking the advice of well-meaning friends and have that engine carefully checked by someone who is actually in the business of rebuilding engines. Right now what you are hearing is what you want to hear.
You posted to a board with a collective 1,000,000,000 years of experience building engines, but don't want the input... you just want someone to tell you where to buy a part. Google could have handled that for you. I can't imagine turning down free consulting services from the likes of @squirrel and others here.
I'm not turning down free consulting services and I appreciate the years of experience had by members here. I am asked questions and try to give the best answer possible. I have also done extensive net searching before and after posting my question. By doing so I have found different terminology that has helped in my search. There are differences in options, I know that, and I'm trying to absorb everything offer here, on other boards I visit and from personal contacts. Like everything else in life I like to get as much information as possible. Everyone has a different opinion on almost every subject. As for finding and using the spacers, I seems like it's been a long time practice and their used was suggested by two people who have guided me through this process so far. This not a high performance engine, it's a simple old truck engine. It will not be hammered. I appreciate the suggestions offered but I need to follow the in person advice I'm being offered in person by people I know and trust. I was on the hunt for a specific part and knew the HAMB was probably the best place to help in my search. I think I have found what I am looking for and I thank all here that have offered their assistance.
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