Technical 1938 Buick Suspension upgrade or replacement ?

I just bought a 1938 Buick Special Convertible (I haven't even gotten it home yet !) and I am wanting to gather some information on what to do with the suspension. It was a restoration project decades ago, and was put into storage. The suspension is currently all stock. What I want to do with the car is leave it looking pretty stock-ish, but upgrade it mechanically to enjoy for highway use with a V8, 5 speed, etc.

The front of the frame is shaped weird, so to my knowledge no one makes a kit to put something like a Mustang II based crossmember on it like you could with a Ford of the same era. I have seen guys graft of a sub-frame off something else, but that seems like a hassle to get it right and mount the bumpers, fenders, etc. I see scarebird sells a bearing conversion and disk brake setup for the stock front suspension, should I do that and maybe tube shocks and a swaybar? any ideas? I would be happy to buy a "kit" if one was available, I just haven't found one.

The rear is (I believe) an enclosed driveline (so much stuff packed around the car, I couldn't get a good look) so, I guess my best option would be a 4-bar or ladder bar suspension with coilovers on a 9" or something. ?

What have you Buick guys done that works?

 

I’d probably get it running and driving safely, see how I liked the ride and then (if needed) look at suspension improvements.

 

This isn’t the place to ask about clips, let alone the M word. But I agree with the above. Those were pretty deluxe cars in their day. Make it safe (brakes especially), get it running (clean fuel system from tank to carb) and see what you’ve got and how you like it. If it was really restored and then properly stored, most components should be in reasonable shape. Might not be as bad as you think. There’s lots of bangers here being driven, and a Buick was a much “better” car.

 

I pretty much have to do it first because I am changing engine/trans and the rear end is a closed driveline type which will be removed. plus, I need to make sure the engine install works with the front suspension and I just want to do it right the first time.

 

it wasn't restored, they just powder coated the chassis and bolted the body back on, it still needs everything.

 

Quick version- rear axle first. Direction will depend on what wheel bolt pattern you want (stock is 5 x 5). If that is not set, there are lots of rears in the 59-60" range that can be used. The original track is 59", and a 9" rear out of a 58 Edsel or Mercury is 59" and has a 5 x 5 pattern. You can use GM truck arms, or 4 link (parallel or tri-angulated). I am going the truck arm route on one of mine, parallel 4 link on the other. Each will require custom fabrication to retain the stock coil spring position, or you can go the coilover route.
Front suspension- with the frame design, there are limited options (in lieu of the previous mentioned things we don't talk about)- leave it stock and add dropped spindles if you want it lower, or convert it to a ball joint front end. Google 37-40 Buick front end upgrades and check out the crankshaft coalition article. I am using dropped spindles (available from FatMan) and the Scarebird disc brake conversion on one, and converting to ball joint on the other. Instead of 58 Pontiac lowers, I am using 51 Pontiac modified lowers, 58 Olds uppers with a custom bracket, and Chevy big car dropped spindles.
The stock front suspension is pretty good as is, and as long as the engine weight of the upgrade is about the same as the straight 8, it would ride reasonably well. A much different weight would put the shocks out of their designed travel range. The brakes need upgrading though.

 

Man, a lot of work for questionable gain. The car will RIDE about as good, or better, than anything you can do. Steering and handling maybe can be improved. A LOT of V8 swaps have been done with nothing being done to the suspension. Most V8s are lighter than the straight 8.
My 1950 4 door is ,I think, heavier than yours. I built the straight 8. I can, and do, run with the BIG BOYS on the open road. I have no interest in racing.
Please keep us informed. If the flack here gets too heavy, try us at a couple Buick forums.

Ben

 

If there are any Buick sites I should check out, Please pm them to me.

I have built a couple cars before, I have a pretty well equipped shop with a two post lift and I am a passable welder. I would not call myself an expert by any means, but in the distant past I worked at a street rod chassis shop and a restoration shop. Having said that, I will take the easiest way to a good result any time, and don't need to do un needed work or re-create the wheel .....

I have always liked big 30's-early 40's convertibles like Packards, Cadillacs, Buicks, Lincolns, Imperials, etc. and this one was in my price range and I love the body style. It's also comforting to know that if I plow a deer with it, front clips and body panels are not that hard to find but it still looks like a big impressive classic American luxury car with dual side mount spares, and fantastic proportions. I have thought for years that it would be great to have a car of this era and type that looked pretty stock, but had better brakes, better handling, A/C, and a good stere0 for road trips. I have a 32 Highboy that I built and love, but It would be awesome to extend my driving season with heat and air, wipers, roll up windows, and a good top.

I have a small block in my 32 Roadster with a Tremec TKO and I would ideally use a similar setup in the Buick.

I like the idea of a 9" rear, it's good to know that one out of a '59 Edsel or Mercury is the right width and lug pattern because using the original wheels would simplify matters with using stock hubcaps and side mount covers/mounts. I am not afraid of fab-ing a 4-bar or ladder-bar type rear end. I am also not against a new housing and axles if need be.

The front suspension is what I am most worried about, I don't need it to handle like a Porsche and I have owned, and currently own cars with early Ford/ traditional style dropped beam axle front ends with transverse leafs, so I would think the stock Buick would be better that that, especially with a brake and bearing upgrade, and tubular shocks? I would like to avoid a clip-swap if possible, but I'm not necessarily totally opposed to it either. I read the Crankshaft Coalition article, lots of great info, but that swap requires finding some pretty scarce parts. I don't need it super-low, either stock height or a couple inches lower would be fine because I still want to run big whitewall rubber. Ideally power steering.......

I live in the middle of nowhere. It's a 16 mile round-trip to the P.O. box or a soda, and a 88 mile round trip to the closest grocery store of any size, or to go out for a meal. I have to go up hills, down hills, and around corners, so I want if fun and safe, and capable of sustained 80 mph freeway driving, but I do NOT expect new Corvette performance!

I do these things in a traditional-ish 1932 Ford highboy or a stock 65 Mustang all the time, so I guess that is what I have to compare it to.

 

The Scarebird Disc Brake conversion kit uses Rivi rotors (5 x 5 pattern) with Timken roller bearings. The stock front end does ride pretty well, but the design limits the positive caster you can set. Even with the heavy straight 8, it steers easily because of that caster. Unless you do away with the lever action ones, tubular shocks are not needed.
You are right about the scarce parts- 58 Pontiac lowers are impossible to find. But the parts I mentioned are easy to find and cheap. An angle bracket with slotted upper holes allows dialing in the caster, and using shims for the camber. Not wanting to cut up the frame on either car was the basis for my decision, but do what works for you.

 

IIRC the '38 has a short frame in the rear that actually had a factory/dealer upgrade to improve it. Only saying that to encourage you to be sure of the structural integrity and design before you alter suspension and increase horsepower.
JW Garage in Wisconsin has a lot of OT front suspension upgrades for various Buicks. May not be shown on website, you may have to call/email them.

 

I like the advice of get it driving as is. It might surprise you. Don't want to waste time and money for little or no gain.
A little bit of work and those straight 8s can keep up with modern traffic.

 

The last time This make and era vehicle was discussed, per front end handling and ride, the consensus came to; get your Buick suspension right ( Kanter is an excellent source, for parts ) . But for shock absorber control Bilsteins are the best.
This was arrived at between Squirrel and I.
I used to service a '40 and Squirrel knows everything.

 

My essay was deleted, got too far into swap talk. I'll recap.

What do you really want to do with the car ?
Highway cruiser that will run well in traffic? Rebuilt suspension with scarebird kit sounds pretty good

If you're considering an alternative front suspension - really consider your shop set up. Are you a great welder with the equipment and space to do this job ?
Lot of projects stall out once the cutting has been done.

Consider your drivetrain. High rpm small block and 5 spd doesn't really match a big convertible. Big, smooth, torque does

Buick big blocks 400, 430, 455 with 3 spd and highway gear are a great set up. The 400 and 430s are inexpensive as most focus on 455. Make a lot of torque and don't need to turn much rpm, don't like a lot of rpm. Small cam, headers, quadrajet, great ride.

5 spd in these cars: T5 isn't gonna do it for long, unless you just cruise. TKO would be best if you want to be able lay into it.

 

^^^^^^^ These Buicks are big and heavy, and like big torque motors. The original straight 8, while only around 100 HP, has a respectable amount of torque. Those mentioned engines are a good recommendation, as well as Nailheads, big Olds and Caddy motors. It is all in what you want the car to be.

 

@Moriarity: I didn't know you tightened the rules to that extent (was away for along time). The (HAMB!) thread I referred to was by T-Man I think but never mind, if it's not allowed, it's not allowed.

Neglecting the modern options then I totally agree with @Tow Truck Tom above. It all depends on what one aims at. For normal driving conditions this should be enough, bear in mind those were genuine 100 MPH cars back in the day, a properly tied down suspension will hold its own at 70 - 80. Kanter from what I recall is not cheap but any modification will take longer and be a bigger hassle than a straight-forward suspension overhaul. There are traditional pattern radial tires out there too is all I am going to say...

 

I like that you cleaned it up and did not delete. Thank you.

Ben

 

^^^^ Ditto^^^^

The OP will benefit by the wealth of knowledge here from the likes of Ben and Ray.

 

I finally got it home. Does anyone know if a 38 Buick Special Convertible body would fit on a 37 Buick special coupe frame? wheelbase appears to be the same...

 

Nope. That was early 1939s

Ben

 

Probably, but to what end?

Nice looking car.

Ben

 

I found a 37 Special Coupe project that has numerous chassis upgrades already done and 37's had factory parallel leaf springs in the back so you don't have to deal with the enclosed driveline/on coils mess. Just curious, another option.

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

Just rebuild the front suspension and add disc brakes. You will be surprised at how good the thing handles and drives.

 

This ^^^^
And a decent anti-roll bar , heaps of positive caster and radial tyres

 

Be aware the leaf springs have shackles at both ends. Also, one loses ride comfort with leaf versus coil, in my opinion.

Ben

 

Man, that’s a nice looking car. I’d drive it as is, fix what’s needed. I sure wouldn’t go to the trouble and time to put it on a different frame/etc.

Have you driven it yet?

 

the short frame only effected the truck support, the frame from the rear axle forward was the same, and quite stout.
The factory fix was little more than some bolt on angle iron to reinforce the trunk, as they had complaints of people
buckling the rear sheet metal when they loaded the trunk with too much weight.

 

As an engine swap stroke is very important in moving the weight of this style car. If you want a small engine dimension package a stroke of 3-7/8” and 4” in a Dart or other aftermarket SBC block and off the shelf crank, rods, and pistons will work fine. No need for anything larger than what was called an RV cam years ago.
400+” is easy to attain and probably less than a rebuilding a big Cadillac or Buick. Another option other than the dimensions is a 440 MOPAR from a motor home; many are still available.
Stock front suspensions are good if rebuilt and fitted with heavy duty shocks from a 3/4 ton pick up. Rear is up to you.

 

Going from a 38 convertible frame to a 37 coupe frame is going to present some challenges. The convertible frame differs in the x-member area to mitigate body twist due to not having a roof for structural support. The rear frame area on the 38 has a different design than the 37 to allow for the coil suspension, and would require some additional fabricated frame members to support the rear of the body.
That is a nice looking car.