Register now to get rid of these ads!

Technical What's the easiest way the swap the transmission on a stock Model A

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by wheeltramp brian, Jun 28, 2022.

  1. wheeltramp brian
    Joined: Jun 11, 2010
    Posts: 2,551

    wheeltramp brian
    Member

    Either pull the engine and transmission and front sheet metal or move the rear end and torque tube back. I'm thinking that moving the rear end back is easiest what do you all say. This is in a basically stock 31 Cabriolet. 20220206_115638.jpg
     
  2. Phil P
    Joined: Jan 1, 2018
    Posts: 492

    Phil P
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    According to my manual written by Victor W Page if the body is on the car you remove it out the back after removing the rear end.

    Phil
     
    gimpyshotrods and lothiandon1940 like this.
  3. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 3,883

    rusty valley
    Member

    I would pull the rear end. Its tricky to get the blocks/jacks in the correct location so that you dont hit the radius rods when moving the assembly to the rear. Worst part I think is carpet and floor boards, after that its all starring you in the face
     
    Tow Truck Tom likes this.
  4. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 3,320

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If you are going to work on/swap the transmission, I'd pull the rear end to work on the transmission.
    If you are going to work on the engine, pull the engine.
    Either way is a lot of work...and you will probably find things you want to clean up in the process...or that is my experience.
    I like your Cabby...what is the ultimate plan for it?
     

  5. fiveohnick2932
    Joined: Mar 29, 2006
    Posts: 918

    fiveohnick2932
    Member
    from Napa, Ca.

    You have to undo the clam shell either way.. just undo a few more things and you can have the rearend out. Plus you wont have to mess with the radiator and coolant mess.
     
  6. wheeltramp brian
    Joined: Jun 11, 2010
    Posts: 2,551

    wheeltramp brian
    Member

    That's what I figured myself. I just got wood floor board so that's easy. And the rear ends probably less than 15 bolts to roll it back. I've hopped up the motor a little bit with a high compression head and header and a downdraft intake with a Holley 94. Runs like a top had it up to 65 the other day but I usually Cruise about 50-55. The car had sat for like 20 years outside and there was a tarp that the shifter had cut a hole in it and leaked water straight into the transmission for years so that when I got the car going the transmission sounded like a box of rocks. When I took the shift tower off lots of the teeth were chipped or missing and just pitted very badly from the rust. I flushed it out a few times and I'm just running straight Lucas right now. The gears sound really bad. Found a very nice used transmission at the Roadster Show last year and inspected it and it's in very good shape. So I'm going to swap it straight out for this one.
     
    cretin and winduptoy like this.
  7. wheeltramp brian
    Joined: Jun 11, 2010
    Posts: 2,551

    wheeltramp brian
    Member

    Getting started now see how far I get tonight 20220628_170926.jpg 20220628_171229.jpg
     
  8. chessterd5
    Joined: May 26, 2013
    Posts: 902

    chessterd5
    Member
    from u.s.a.

    I want to watch!
    I think I will learn something.
     
  9. wheeltramp brian
    Joined: Jun 11, 2010
    Posts: 2,551

    wheeltramp brian
    Member

  10. wheeltramp brian
    Joined: Jun 11, 2010
    Posts: 2,551

    wheeltramp brian
    Member

    20220628_180438.jpg 20220628_180422.jpg 20220628_190041.jpg 20220628_185231.jpg 20220628_190142.jpg 20220628_190055.jpg it ended up taking about 2 hours to get everything all apart and out. Figured I'd check the clutch since I was in there and it looks fine. Going to replace the throwout bearing and the rear joint and then put it back together maybe tomorrow or the next day. Here's a picture of the old trans gears.
     
  11. Just did this myself, out the back took roughly the same as you, a couple of hours, going back together the only minor holdup was not registering the plate in front of the clamshell correctly, only goes one way or the holes won’t line up. 0D575B28-361C-4906-A0EC-4B37EE9D38A3.jpeg 57D96AAA-90E2-44F7-B8E5-CD065A21CE33.jpeg
     
    winduptoy likes this.
  12. wheeltramp brian
    Joined: Jun 11, 2010
    Posts: 2,551

    wheeltramp brian
    Member

    20220628_191401.jpg here's a picture of the replacement trans with the nice gears. Going to go soak all the hardware and clamshell today at work and order a couple of parts so we'll probably won't be till tomorrow till I get it back in
     
    winduptoy and cretin like this.
  13. ClarkH
    Joined: Jul 21, 2010
    Posts: 1,412

    ClarkH
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    That's a lot of water contamination. Call me crazy, but you might want to check or just replace the fluid in your differential. On steep hills you can get transference between diff and trans through the torque tube. Not a lot, but fluid is cheap.

    Oh, and if you have access to a spring spreader, now is the time to clean up and re-lube the rear spring pack. Maybe remove a few leaves while you're at it... and so begin the while-we're-at-its....:D
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2022
    Blues4U likes this.
  14. wheeltramp brian
    Joined: Jun 11, 2010
    Posts: 2,551

    wheeltramp brian
    Member

    For sure water contamination. I've changed the trans fluid about four times since I've had the car and the rear end about the same. The rear end fluid is always better condition but I am going to change it once I get it all back together
     
  15. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,263

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I would throw a machinist rule across the friction surfaces of that clutch.

    Something in that picture strikes me as the appearance of an uneven surface. It might be an optical illusion, but it is worth (free) checking.
     
  16. wheeltramp brian
    Joined: Jun 11, 2010
    Posts: 2,551

    wheeltramp brian
    Member

    It's not an optical illusion. The flywheel side of the clutch is definitely not touching completely flat. I should probably take the flywheel off and get it turned. I'm also getting a new clutch with a sprung hub
     
    WalkerMD and SS327 like this.
  17. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,263

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    What I am seeing:

    One dot: friction surface showing the characteristics of slip-engagement.
    Two dots: friction surface appearing to not making contact with the flywheel.

    upload_2022-6-29_10-15-15.png
     
  18. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,263

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Ahh, ok. I hate having the oh sh!t moment enough with my own parts.

    I hate it even more when I think that I might be pointing it out to someone else.

    It is interesting to see that the areas of better engagement appear to coincide with the spokes of the clutch disk. I suspect that the current disc is distorting on engagement.
     
    SS327 likes this.
  19. wheeltramp brian
    Joined: Jun 11, 2010
    Posts: 2,551

    wheeltramp brian
    Member

    No worries man always need a second set of eyes when working on old junk
     
    gimpyshotrods likes this.
  20. Easiest way? pay someone to do it!:D

    Sorry man I couldn't help it. HRP
     
    gimpyshotrods likes this.
  21. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 7,589

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    Egads! Just Lucas oil stabilizer alone? That's just a long chain polymer meant to add some tackiness to the oil so it clings better, increases adhesion/cohesion. If the trans had problems before, that didn't do it any good.

    Glad to see you're going to go ahead and do some clutch work while you're at it. You're that far into it, might as well do that now. Good luck, looks like a fun hot rod.
     
  22. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,263

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I was sticking to the "you should always do all of your own work" edict on my projects.

    Now I have severe tendonitis in my right elbow, and bursitis in the left from compensating.

    Out the wad of cash has come....

    I'm not old enough for this.
     
  23. stubbsrodandcustom
    Joined: Dec 28, 2010
    Posts: 2,273

    stubbsrodandcustom
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Spring tx

    That clutch disc deff needs attention, but I think it looks more oil soaked than not even wear. Unless its deforming and the disc it warped... Id be interested to see what you find there.
     
  24. wheeltramp brian
    Joined: Jun 11, 2010
    Posts: 2,551

    wheeltramp brian
    Member

    Well even though I told the lady to ship ups only she shipped all the parts in the order that I need to put this thing back together through the post office which goes on a 100 mile round-trip past my shop to get to me and a day later sucks. So I got the new floor mat from UPS yesterday and hopefully by tracking it says I will get the stuff in the mail today at work hopefully. Going to try and find a sealed bearing today at the parts stores and clean up and swap the rear bearing retainer from the old trans to the new
     
  25. fiftyv8
    Joined: Mar 11, 2007
    Posts: 5,394

    fiftyv8
    Member
    from CO & WA

    With the way the engine is mounted it is pretty obvious sliding the rearend back is the way to go.
    Because it is such a crap job, many cars did not see too many universal services.
    The other thing worth considering, if you are doing this job, make sure you set up in an area where you are happy to leave the car should things not go as planned and there is a hold up for whatever reason, since the car is not easily moved when the rearend is slid out.
     
  26. woodiewagon46
    Joined: Mar 14, 2013
    Posts: 2,269

    woodiewagon46
    Member
    from New York

    Brian, at this point in your build, I would seriously think about installing a balanced flywheel and pressure plate assembly. If you are going to replace them you might spring for the extra bucks and have them balanced. I just rebuilt a transmission and replaced clutch, pressure plate, flywheel, pilot bearing, throwout bearing and universal joint in a '29 Coupe and it really runs smooth with the balanced parts. By the way I would fill the universal joint housing with John Deere "Corn Head Grease". That stuff really works, just don't give it a few pumps with your grease gun, use the whole cartridge. You need to use 600W in your transmission. Any clue as to where the water is coming from?
     
    rusty valley likes this.
  27. wheeltramp brian
    Joined: Jun 11, 2010
    Posts: 2,551

    wheeltramp brian
    Member

    Hey Woody the water was all the residual rust that was in the trans that I couldn't get out I believe. As far as the corn head Grease I was going to pack the whole assembly full before I slid the rear end forward. I'm not going to get the assembly balanced but it is a good idea
     
  28. woodiewagon46
    Joined: Mar 14, 2013
    Posts: 2,269

    woodiewagon46
    Member
    from New York

    I just googled "Model A transmission transmission bearings" and the modern number for the bearing is 6306-2RS.
     
    gimpyshotrods likes this.
  29. wheeltramp brian
    Joined: Jun 11, 2010
    Posts: 2,551

    wheeltramp brian
    Member

    Yep the parts store is sending me down a sealed one and they open one
     
    gimpyshotrods likes this.
  30. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,263

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Point of note:

    The 600W that is specified for this transmission is not measured on the modern SAE scale. It corresponds to the modern ISO scale.

    600W is a steam cylinder oil. That's not a thing used any longer in the automotive industry.

    In just the early Ford context, Ford stopped specifying it in the 1930's, instead listing an SAE rated gear oil for all previous vehicles.

    By 1936 it was not mentioned at-all in service manuals.

    Transmissions and rear axles went to as follows:

    Winter: SAE 90 or 110.
    Summer: SAE 160.

    Keep in mind that these are old-standard and formulation, single-grade oils, and the change interval was just 1,000 miles

    The modern SAE equivalent of 600W is as follows:

    Winter: 80W-90.
    Summer: 85W-140.

    Both of those far exceed the functionality of both 600W, and the early single-grade SAE gear oils.
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.