I've just purchased a 21-stud for my 31 Model A Tudor and in the deal I got a couple 78- transmission cases, a side load transmission with greasy (but good) gears, and a 35-36 trans that looks good inside (needs a good cleaning). The Tudor will be a simple pre-war styled hot rod, left rough around the edges, but well done. I'm not looking for a tire burning beast or a land speed record holder, just a nice byway (and occasional freeway) cruiser. I'm 97% sure it will be a closed drive transmission, but if someone wants to argue, I'll listen. I know there's any number of gearsets from cars/trucks, Mercs/Lincolns/Fords, open/closed, etc., but I'd love to hear what you did with your hot rod and why. No details are trivial here! I need to learn about gearsets, synchros, towers....school me!!!! And if there's already a good thread started, point me in the right direction! TIA
Van Pelts has this book that is an awesome reference that you should have. Ford Top Loader Transmission Book (vanpeltsales.com)
Good thread idea . I love learning and reading some good tech tips and tricks lessons. Nothing better than hearing everybody’s past experiences.
Getting info is good. When it comes to rebuild parts as stated above, just go to Van Pelt. It's a 100% win thing so far. Several versions of the Top shift unit. A lot of it crosses over but there are reasons to go with the so called 39 unit. Better 2nd gear shift, that's about it. If you want the shift handle in the floor and have a side door gear box you have the better of the bunch gear set. Those will go in the 35 up top load case. You just need the double detent top unit with the big 2-3 Fork. It's not difficult but then I've been doing it for a very long time. If you don't know what your doing Van Pelts book is a must have item. You may never get the pre 38 box fully apart without it.
Brett, Tman's recommendation of VanPelt's book is spot on. I rebuilt one of those transmissions a number of years ago and that book was a big help. It was my first time on one of them and it cleared up some things I wasn't sure on. vanPelt is also a great source for parts.
I don't have anything to add to Tman's recommendation Brett but that looks like a nice solid body. Looking forward to watching this one come together. HRP
Use the best of the top load cases (check them all over for cracks and wear). Use all the internals from the side load trans, moved to inside the best top load case. Then find a double detent top tower, shifter, and corresponding wide fork from a 39 passenger or 40-52 F-1 pickup. And get VanPelt's book as it will tell you all about this mix and match, and getting the right clearances. None of the 35 internals or top are useful for the conversion.
Very Important NOTICE! I am not a good teacher! I don't think like "Normal" people and I don't listen to advice very well! Everything I know was learned the Hard way. The stuff that works stuck pretty good. The stuff that didn't I can't get out of my head. I'm pretty good at picture reading but have trouble reading real words. When looking for information that's in Books I always start reading from the Back page and try to get to the front, I seldom make it. I can't have People around while I'm trying to work or any music playing or I forget what I'm trying to do. I did however just build a new 39 style gearbox for my Roadster last fall with the help of Van Pelts book and bought every ware part I needed from him, that's how good his photo outlay is in his book. My only problem now is that I have 3 speeds in reverse and only one in forward. I'm probably not the Guy to tell you how to do things when the Van Pelt book is so good at it already. I may however point out some things to do or not do while your building and posting photos of where your at. First thing to do is make sure your starting with a good healthy empty case (YES the gear case itself can wear Out!) and try to use a double detent top with correct shift handle. For now that's it and I'll stay in the shadows and see what some of the more Qualified guys on here bring up for ya. P.S. You don't necessarily need a 39 style Trans for your project as long as you can learn how to shift the pre 39 style box.
@Pist-n-Broke Here are the complete transmissions I have: 35-36 Dirt on top gear is from removing the shift tower... What I believe is a 50 truck side loader And a "spare" I got in the 21-stud deal I believe this is "01A" since its a side shift. Originally thought "81A" but they were all top shift...
Your side load truck trans is for an open driveshaft, so if you decide you use it with a closed torquetube you will need to switch the rear output shaft and maybe some other parts. VanPelt's book can guide you through that. Any top load case of the 32-48 era can be built with later guts, but some guys like the later cases just because the later gears fit a little easier. You can get the exact year of each case by comparing the serial number stamped into the top edge with the production list of cars by year on VanPelt's site. Please show a better picture of the "extra" trans in the tub. The only tower that might be useful to build a 39 style trans is maybe that black one. If the two side plugs are little screws, no bueno. If they are bigger like 5/8" then you have a good one. I think you should have already ordered the VanPelt book by now, right?
After perusing the VanPelt website, I deduced that the blue trans is for open drive, so that's a last resort. The intended case and tower are both black, so, that's sorted out. The detent screws are the larger type. As for the "tub" transmission, what additional photos do you need? And the book, yes it will be next on the "to order" list!
Yes, you certainly have "Stuff" to start with. Before you just assume you're going to use any one of your cases you should get it near surgically clean inside and out and inspect the Thrust washer sights. When they are past usage, it can move an otherwise good case to the Scrap pile. Never assume anything. As for This little assembly issue can be cured with a Rotary File. The Blue open drive Trans should have the Good gear and synchro set in it. You may want to put that back on the most likely to use gears list. And by all means as alchemy said This is the best info in print you can get that I know of. I will also say my personal book has additional notes hand written all over it from my hands on lessons on top of the info printed. Life is a learning curve, it never ends.
P.S. You may want to order 2 books so you can have one at your work site where it no doubt will get oil stains on every page and a clean one tucked away in a place so you can always actually read the printed info.
Thanks @Pist-n-Broke and @alchemy all taken to heart. PnB…to use the “blue” gear set, it would need to be moved to a closed drive output shaft. Is it safe to assume I can find one for sale once I’m ready for it?
If the tub trans is really an 01A, then it has perfect guts to fit into a top load case. It has the torquetube output. The gear ratio might actually be a little better than the blue truck trans. If you decide you need any parts at all, VanPelt is your man. If he don't have it, no one can.
[QUOTE="brett4christ, post: 14511396, member: 35468" PnB…to use the “blue” gear set, it would need to be moved to a closed drive output shaft. Is it safe to assume I can find one for sale once I’m ready for it?[/QUOTE] Easy answer on both questions, yes. The good part of busting a gear set is the output shaft itself is seldom damaged. Being your most likely going to build some kind of Trans mount to the Chassis there are a few different styles of rear bearing retainers you can use. Some are much easier to work with than others. This might be a good time to decide what style Clutch Pedal your going to use. It will have some kind of bearing as to what other hard parts your going to need. Van Pelt is a go to guy for parts for sure but I know I'm not the only person with many many pieces set aside from using 2 gear boxes to build one good one, sometimes 3 or 4 of them. I never throw away anything that might get used at a latter date. I guess you can call me the "no one can" man. Notice; often times shipping costs for hard parts make a good price not a good deal when you can get it shipped from a closer outlet.
My plan is to use a “kit” that allows the use of Model A pedals…unless you have a less expensive option…
What center crossmember will you use? A common one is an F-1, then you can use a 48 passenger rear mount I think. And the F-1 pedals will be a good fit.
I'm not a big fan of any Kit's. If you have limited Fab skills then I guess you're stuck trying to make Kit stuff do what they say it will do. I like adapting Factory parts we know do the Job but not all are up to that level of work. Model A rails, 36 X member graphed in with 39 Trans mount and 39 pedal unit. I believe I already mentioned I don't think like normal people.
@Pist-n-Broke I don’t mind adapting parts as I usually can’t afford the parts that do it right. I have a stack of Model A parts that I can’t give away, so I might as well use what I have. I really like your application, but I know the 39 pedals are getting spendy, and here in the rust belt, finding “good” parts is getting harder every year!! I’ll start looking around….
OK, Now @Pist-n-Broke and @alchemy have my head swirling! All kinds of thoughts.... With 32 K-members being pricey, not really digging the look of a F-1 crossmember and the scarcity of 37-40 X-members in my area, I have a thought that even P-n-B might approve of... I have an untitled A frame with some scabs and bends. I'm now thinking of disassembling the frame, selling the crossmembers and using sections of frame rails to fabricate K-member legs to attach to my existing A crossmember. I can then mount the transmission, wishbone, and maybe a pedal assembly off of the legs. This would use Ford parts that I have on hand and should give me a solid platform to build my version of an AV8. Thoughts?!?!
Do it. I suggest setting the cowl you will use on your frame rails, mocking up a toe board, then mocking up where your pedal set should fit. Even if you use some pre-hydraulic pedals, they can be modified for a master cylinder mount. Getting them to the right placement fore/aft, as well as up/down and the mount angle correct is important before you start bending up your new X legs.
Solid suggestion right there. It's all about your Fab skills and knowing how to set things up. On several Customer projects I have hand new material folded up to copy the Ford X member. A couple notches and some work with a hole saw they turned out pretty good.
so a few things here, I may have overlooked it but I didnt see any one talk about thrust washers when discussing putting side shift gears in a top shift case. its to my understanding that because I used a side shift thrust washer in a top shift case it ate the back of the case causing 2nd gear to over shift and get stuck. the second thing is in setting up pedals in a model A, the jew and I have both done them this way and its very straight forward and simple, also works great and can be done with the body on the frame if need be. have someone with a press brake bend you a piece of 5" c channel out of 10ga youll use this to make a k-member tying it into your stock cross member. the angle will be determined by a set of 39 ford pedals (they are already set up for hydraulic and have a direct throw clutch arm which will make your life a lot easier) get the drivers side rough cut so you can measure and figure out where your pedals are going (fore and aft) this is important because nothing is more uncomfortable than pedals in the wrong location. once youve got your pedal location roughed out go ahead and use a drill to drill holes in the corners and then a cut off wheel cut a hole in the c channel so the pedals can slip though. at this point trace the pedal mount onto some paper and transfer it to a piece a 3/16's plate. I think Ben may have this in cad if you know someone that has a cnc plasma, laser or water jet. thats what I did. the reason for this is your pedals have a ton of pressure and you done want them all willy nilly bolted to a thin piece of metal that will eventually fatigue. tap the mount. start a couple bolts in to it so the pedal assembly holds on, get the c channel tacked in place, slip it though the hole and then tack the mount into place. it seems a little more cumbersome than it really is. so once the drivers side is in you make one for the passenger side that matches that angle. oh and the clutch arm, just heat and bend so that its a direct throw. weld everything up bolt your 40-48 master up and youve got hydraulic pedals in your Av8!!!
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