Hot Rods The "Whatever" project

Yes you are, couple oz's to my 35 pounds!! I will let you know!

 

It's a handycap race! I gave you most of a day. BTW, it's a whole lot cheaper if it's just an envelope... I was really surprised that it's just a forever stamp.

 

Some progress in pictures, I hope...

Oh crap, pictures come out sideways and I don't know how to rotate them. I'll try again later

 

Some progress in pictures, I hope...
Took some time, but there it is. I've got a lot of welding to do on this stuff. And take the T5 out to swap to a T10, which is a bit smaller.

I'm also in a bit of a quandary. I'm thinking that I may use an engine plate for the back of the engine to support it. It also could be used to stiffen up the cowl support hoop. Which would open up some room for my feet under the cowl. The quandary is the firewall. Do I sandwich the fiberglass firewall between the engine plate and the cowl support hoop or cut the fiberglass to fit around the engine plate?

Can anyone shed some light on the issue? Anyone have pictures of that? Marty shared his method, I just don't know if I can pull it off.

 

You cut the fiberglass out, as shown in these pictures. I bead the outer skin, and remove the center, leaving the bead as a finished edge. With the inner panel sandwiched between the bellhousing and the block, it allows the engine to rock, and not transfer the vibrations to the body. There is also a rubber gasket glued to the inside of the outer firewall to serve as a seal.

 

Thanks Marty. Those pictures help. I'll have to show these pictures to a friend who has bead rolling equipment and see if I can use his shop in the near future. I'm closing in on needing to make the firewall and deciding on the motor plate.

Oh well, I've got a lot of welding to do. I'll focus on that while ruminating about how I can make something similar.

 

I've been thinking about how I can make something similar to what Marty suggested with the tools that I have. It occurs to me that I could make a hammer form from 3/4 inch mdf, and make the outer firewall skin from aluminum sheet. Marty also recommended what alloy and hardness a while back, so I'll find that and try that in the near future. I'm thinking that I can get the aluminum regardless on order Monday, might as well get a 4x8 sheet of the stuff.

 

I'm watching this part with great interest. I too, was planning on an aluminum motor plate. I have a piece of 6061 3/8" thick. That would add great strength to the structure. the fiberglass body would just be along for the ride.
The only downside I see to the rigid sandwich is the fiberglass my not like the vibrations. My vision is for a bare bones race car just barely streetable.

 

you will never feel the slop driving, I have used a couple

 

Good to know. In a car like a Mini (a real one, not the bmw abortion), when the bushings and balljoints are tight, any slop is noticeable. It never made it into the Mini. The 1st one was a solid column bolted directly to the rack, and I had all new front suspension with no rubber bushings, and spherical rod ends that were replacements for the bushings. That car was twitchy. It took a while not to overdrive it. Something tells me that I won't have that problem with the Whatever.

 

I'm thinking the as well. My engine mounts are solid, and I think my frame will be rigid when all of the diagonals are in and everything is fully welded.

If the rear engine plate is bolted down to the cowl support hoop and the frame members below that, I think the body would see minimal if any significant stress.

My thinking is to make bolt bungs for the cowl support hoop that the plate bolts to. Then make clearance holes thru the firewall say a quarter inch larger than the bungs, and bolt the body between them. To effect a seal, a neoprene gasket between the engine plate and the body would be sufficient.

Then seal the floor to the firewall back to the rear of the body. I was thinking about keeping it open, but I'm going to enclose as much as I am able to. SWMBO will need a floor to be able to get in and out, so my thinking is evolving.

I'd still like to make a belly pan, but I'm thinking it will only be under the engine and body not the turtle deck. But you mentioned way back that I shouldn't hide the framework. And then there is the airflow issue to consider, and...

I'm going to start talking to myself before this thing is finished. And getting answers... That's the part to worry about!

 

Swapped out the T5 for the T10 after bolting on a replacement tailhousing. This one out,
This one in. Quite a difference in size. Shift linkage will need some fettling eventually, but that's a ways down the road.

Good thing I kept the cutout. It's going to be trimmed to fit around the bellhousing and then glassed back in (right, ratrodder?).

So once that was determined, I took a look at the engine plate idea. CAD. Cardboard aided design! I have a piece of aluminum tooling plate and I cut the cardboard to match dimensions of the aluminum plate. Then discovering that the bellhousing is 14 inches in diameter, the same as a new cutoff saw disc, I cut the cardboard to fit around the bellhousing and up against the cowl support hoop.

I'm thinking that I will lower the engine around an inch, bringing the oil pan just above the lower frame tubes.
A little hard to see here, but the pan is essentially level with the top of the tubing at its lowest point. This will help with room for my feet and alignment of the driveshaft between the transmission and the axle. There's no problem with u-joint angles, as the rear suspension is adjustable and the axle can rotate to make the proper angles.

So next step is to cut the tooling plate for the bellhousing and establish engine height. Then redo the front motor mounts making sure that the engine plate is perpendicular to the frame. I'm going to make flanges for the motor plate that will weld to the cowl support hoop and the 2x3 main frame members.

Some spacers the thickness of the body plus a little bit for a gasket and Marty's concept of an outer firewall skin, and viola! The engine plate does double duty, holding up the back of the engine and stiffening the cowl support hoop.

So I still have to figure out how to make get some ribs like Marty showed, with the tools that I have. But that's small stuff...

 

Oh and a couple of angle flanges that bolt on to the engine plate that will support the front edge of the floor at the same level as the floor in the body. I'm also thinking that I will make a transmission and driveshaft tunnel to seal up the inside of the car from the road.

 

Pictures first! A thousand words,right?
First picture post cutout for the flywheel. I cut it to the same diameter as the od of the bellhousing. It will clear a 153 tooth flywheel. Then using the bellhousing and an antique set of expanding transfer punches I laid out the bolt and dowel pin holes.

Second picture is of the plate bolted between the engine and bellhousing. Tomorrow set the engine angle and setback and the height of the engine and make the attachment flanges. And remake the front engine mounts.

Now if only the post office ever delivers mail again on our street, maybe the transmission parts will be delivered!

Forgot to mention: also radius the top of the plate once the height is set. I think it's time to update the to do list...

 

Well I'm committed now! We'll see if my modifications to Marty's methods work. By tomorrow this time hopefully I'll have the firewall and engine mounts somewhat in place. The hardest part of this setup will be getting the spacers I'm envisioning the right thickness so as not to crush the fiberglass and allow it to move without cracking the body.

 

Dave,
How about using shoulder bolts to limit the 'crush' on the fiberglass?

 

That's a good suggestion. Hmmm! I'm going to have to get some and see if I can get everything tight.

 

Well I'm committed now, or at least maybe I should be! I made my attempt at the engine plate/cowl support hoop modifying the way Marty showed to go with what I am capable of. Here's a picture or two of the way I have done it. The first shows the cowl support hoop from the inside. The second one shows the engine plate from the outside. The body is sandwiched between the engine plate and the cowl support hoop. When fully done there's going to be 1/4-inch spacers between the two and the body will have clearance holes to let it move a tiny bit without stressing the body. And like Marty has done there will be some form of rubber sheet between the engine plate and the body to make a seal.

However... I don't like the current plate as its a bit smaller than the fiberglass firewall. So, tomorrow I'm going to order a new sheet of tooling plate and and make a new one to match the body. The current one won't go to waste as I've been collecting parts for Son of Whatever, and it'll work for that.

And now that I have some idea of the available space around my feet, I'm going to make some braces for the cowl support hoop to tie into the frame near the door openings, using 1 inch tube.

Finally this picture is of the Vega steering box installed and the first of some bracing for the frame. I didn't have a clear view of the k member and Vega box since old mangy has been in the car for a while. It's on the stand now, so I was able to get good pictures.

That's all for now. I'm moving forward even if it seems to be going backwards at times...

 

Forwards, backwards, sideways... at least you've got some motion! I hear inertia can be a terrible thing.

Will the pedal support get triangulated to anything, or is it just going to hang out there like a ne'er-do-well?

 

Eventually! I'm glad I hadn't done it yet, when I decided to change transmissions. That one is just temporary, to get an idea of my feet on the pedals. I'm going to incorporate something that will support the floor, be part of the center crossmember to support the transmission, and include a driveshaft retaining strap.

And you're off the hook for having to patch the firewall. I had to cut it out a little bit more in fact, to clear the bellhousing with the location of the engine determined. And I just figured out how the lower connection for those diagonal braces I mentioned are going to be made. Damn, I get inspiration in the strangest ways...

 

Made the internal bracing for the cowl support hoop today. My ducks feet still fit down there. You all may remember I was trying to make all of the bracing under the cowl from 1.5 inch tubing. It just wasn't going to work with my short wiiiide feet. This works. Oh and the T10 helps as well...

Here's the mounting point for the end of the diagonal. Eventually I'll add gussets on the underside of the Strode Concept floor flange support system. Thanks Marty for showing us that in your #10 project. I've plaigerized a lot of ideas from Marty and many of the other people's projects.

So lots of progress on the Whatever project this week (well for me anyway...). Transmission parts, cowl support, engine rear mount, steering column support...

It's a good thing there's a couple of entries on our social calendar for tomorrow. Driving to appointments will be a relaxing day!

 

So, just spent a bit of time searching for engine turning. I'm going to have a BIG chunk of aluminum plate showing in the engine bay, and figure I might as well make it a bit fancier. I noticed that there are different materials used for the abrasive tool.

Being half Scots i.e. thrifty (okay you can call me cheap), I'm going to use what I have already and try on a scrap of aluminum cut from the first attempt at a firew/engine plate. I'm going to use a 2 inch diameter Scotch pad and see how it looks. More after the first attempt...

 

Before After This is a first attempt ever for engine turning. Just eyeballed the pattern and used a cheap surface conditioning disc in the drill press. It took roughly 10 minutes, and that includes setup and getting a broken disc nub out of the mandrel.

It's going to look good in the engine bay...

 

Your future's looking bright!

 

The future's so bright, I've got to wear shades!

 

Dave, I stumbled onto these shots of the Peat Bros, with Don Edmunds, Wayne Weiler, and Parnelli behind the wheel. I don't think Rufus ever drove it though.

 

Re: Engine turning
Try laying out the centers at a 60 degree offset. That way every swirl will be 60 degrees away from each adjacent swirl.
Instead of an abrasive I used a stiff wire brush that I banded with zip ties.

 

I love the look of that car. Especially some of the details. Like the front axle.

Marty, how would you get the arch in a tube like that? I keep envisioning using a large hydraulic press, end fixtures at a distance beyond where the tube would be machined for the king pin bosses, and some sort of rigid forming die with a radius tighter than what I want to end up with.

Any thoughts?

 

I like the dash. Those skinny hairy legs...ugh! But seriously, I'll have to give the wire brush a try. How did the zip ties hold up? Depending on the size I could picture using a squeeze type hose clamp, the flat band type. I've got quite a bit of aluminum I can experiment on, so I'll give your method a try.

I'm picking up the new tooling plate tomorrow, so the current one will be available for experimentation. If you have a picture or two of the setup you used could you post it here? Thanks

 

Youtube is your friend on this one. I typed in "engine turning aluminum" and got 23 hits on the first page. Good study project when your back is lame.