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Technical Updated: Transmission or Rear whine (Fixed)

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by BDUB77, May 12, 2022.

  1. BDUB77
    Joined: Nov 16, 2018
    Posts: 183

    BDUB77
    Member

    Hey everyone,
    My roadster is making a whining or howling noise and I want to get a second opinion before I tear into it. It has a 354 Hemi backed by a 3 speed Saginaw using the HotHeads kit. The rear is 48 ford. The car has some whine in first and second gear that becomes almost a howl in 3rd. If I push in the clutch, it goes away. It seems to be more prevalent at a certain RPM and when I let off the gas. My thought is that it is the transmission and my next step is to order a rebuild kit and pull it out. It is so hard to tell where a noise is coming from in this car. Thoughts?
    I have linked a video of the car being driven: (It's longer than it needs to be, but I thought some of you would like to see what its like living off the Blue Ridge Parkway)
     
    Montana1 and Desoto291Hemi like this.
  2. NoelC
    Joined: Mar 21, 2018
    Posts: 668

    NoelC
    Member

    Sounds like a throw out bearing? But that's just a guess.
     
  3. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 20,407

    alchemy
    Member

    If it whines even with the clutch not depressed, it wouldn't be the throwout bearing. I can't tell if it's a gear whine or bearing whine.
     
  4. jaracer
    Joined: Oct 4, 2008
    Posts: 2,419

    jaracer
    Member

    It is hard to tell from the video, but does it make a difference between pull and coast? If it does, I'd vote for ring and pinion noise. Typically ring and pinion noise changes between accell and decell and probably goes away on coast. It also tends to be speed dependent in that it may go away at certain speeds.
     
    ottoman, Bob Lowry and BDUB77 like this.

  5. BDUB77
    Joined: Nov 16, 2018
    Posts: 183

    BDUB77
    Member

    It goes away when I push in the clutch and coast. It's loudest on decell
     
  6. NoelC
    Joined: Mar 21, 2018
    Posts: 668

    NoelC
    Member

    Like I said, it was just a guess, but it's beginning to sound like the problem.
     
  7. A Boner
    Joined: Dec 25, 2004
    Posts: 7,419

    A Boner
    Member

    Are the gears in the rear end new?
     
  8. BDUB77
    Joined: Nov 16, 2018
    Posts: 183

    BDUB77
    Member

    No,
    The only part that I have not gone through or replaced in this car is the rear. I'll admit that from what I have read, I'm a little intimidated to tear into a ford banjo.
     
  9. juan motime
    Joined: Sep 14, 2017
    Posts: 79

    juan motime
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I do hear it while watching the video, but I don't want to guess. Do you have access to hoist? If you can SAFELY put it up in the air to isolate the sound and or vibration might be the best. Good luck and be safe.
     
    VANDENPLAS likes this.
  10. greybeard360
    Joined: Feb 28, 2008
    Posts: 2,074

    greybeard360
    Member

    Sounds to me like a lot of ring and pinion backlash or pinion bearings. Trans would whine differently in 1st or 2nd and not in 3rd. With the clutch released the r&p would float and take the load off of the gears.
     
  11. NoelC
    Joined: Mar 21, 2018
    Posts: 668

    NoelC
    Member

    If you don't watch the last 15seconds as it's idled into the shop, and you don't listen to the whining sound as it's idled in, ya might not think it's the throw out bearing or input shaft bearing, but again, just a guess. But I didn't hear any clunking as you were shifting gears, the noise didn't change much through speeds...and I did enjoy the country drive.
     
  12. Beautiful country drive,,,,,,,almost looks identical to here in middle Tennessee,,,,(Smith Co.),,,,,.
    If you’re whine is louder in 3 rd gear,,,,I don’t suspect the rear end .
    Did you do any rebuild on the Saginaw 3 speed ?,,,,,sounds like the main pilot bearing .
    I’m just guessing there .

    Tommy
     
  13. BDUB77
    Joined: Nov 16, 2018
    Posts: 183

    BDUB77
    Member

    Thanks Tommy. I did not do any rebuild on the Saginaw. I am trying to decide where to start.
     
  14. Doublepumper
    Joined: Jun 26, 2016
    Posts: 1,535

    Doublepumper
    Member
    from WA-OR, USA

    Hope it's nothing serious. Sounds a lot like the bad main shaft bearing in my m22....after I side stepped the clutch pedal:oops:
    Good luck!
     
  15. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 7,589

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    Sounds like a differential whine to me. Especially when slowing.
     
  16. jaracer
    Joined: Oct 4, 2008
    Posts: 2,419

    jaracer
    Member

    What does it do with the clutch engaged when you are neither accelerating or decelerating? That's a float condition where there is no load on the ring and pinion. Most ring and pinion noises go away in a float condition.
     
  17. Have you checked the fluid level in the banjo? If you car sits at a rake, the gear oil tends to run out and fill the torque tube. Wait, is it an open drive conversion with that Saginaw? If so, nevermind.
     
    seb fontana likes this.
  18. BDUB77
    Joined: Nov 16, 2018
    Posts: 183

    BDUB77
    Member

    The noise goes away.
     
  19. BDUB77
    Joined: Nov 16, 2018
    Posts: 183

    BDUB77
    Member

    Yep, checked the fluid.
     
  20. BDUB77
    Joined: Nov 16, 2018
    Posts: 183

    BDUB77
    Member

    I'm thinking that it is the rear. I believe that the only way to check it out is to remove it from the car and disassemble it. Is there anything to check with it in the car? Maybe the pinion nuts?
     
  21. I don't think it's the trans. I think it's the rear end, because it gets louder at speed. My 9" does the same thing, but I started with a 3:50 gear, then switched to a 3:25 that was a take out. They say that you can't do that, but I did, 125,000 miles ago.

    I think it got quieter with age. When I had it out last, the wear pattern was all the way across the tooth. I say that to say this, don't be afraid to run it unless the noise is unbearable.

    Besides that, aren't banjos a little noisy to begin with? ;)
     
    Desoto291Hemi likes this.
  22. HA!HA! @BDUB77 ..... You came on here for a SECOND opinion?!? Better take off your gloves and shoes so you can count how many opinions you're gonna get! Good luck!
     
  23. BDUB77
    Joined: Nov 16, 2018
    Posts: 183

    BDUB77
    Member

    True, But I appreciate all of them. Maybe I should have added a poll. Rear or Tranny
     
  24. Rickybop
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 9,606

    Rickybop
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I had a whine. Sounded like the transmission, but hard to tell. Thinking the rear end could be transmitting the sound through the drive shaft. Took the cover off the rear end. Somebody who was supposedly smarter than me with this stuff said...
    "Oh yeah, look at the wear pattern. Bad rear end."
    Bought another rear end. New brakes, lines and stuff. I do good job.
    All back together.
    Time for the test run.
    Here we go...
    No difference.
    Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

    Just don't be hasty.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2022
    Montana1 and Desoto291Hemi like this.
  25. In third gear the transmission is one to one with the input shaft connected to the output shaft. If it went away in third I would be looking at the transmission but it doesn't so I would suspect the rear end. You could sorta isolate it with a couple cans of "motor honey" in rear end (might have to drain some) instead of the regular gear oil and see if the noise changes. Not recommending this as a fix but just for a test.
     
    Montana1 likes this.
  26. BDUB77
    Joined: Nov 16, 2018
    Posts: 183

    BDUB77
    Member

    3.jpg 2.jpg 1.jpg Well, after checking the backlash on the R&P and seeing that it was out of spec, (.009 from my best attempt at measuring it) I decided to pull the rear end and inspect it. The axle seals were leaking, probably because there is no vent on an open conversion. There were no gaskets between the bells and the center section, and there was some damage to the ring gear. The bearings seem good. What I would like to do is replace the seals and put it back together with the right preload and backlash and run it. Does this R&P still look usable?
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2022
  27. greybeard360
    Joined: Feb 28, 2008
    Posts: 2,074

    greybeard360
    Member

    Lets see now. You have a grinding noise. R&P have damage.

    You think that may be the noise?

    Get new ( or better) gears. Clean the housing out real good.... Those little chunks are still in there.
     
    Wanderlust and firstinsteele like this.
  28. Marty Vanin
    Joined: Feb 22, 2017
    Posts: 91

    Marty Vanin
    Member

    Those gears are junk. You can change backlash and preload a 100 times and they will be noisy 100 times.
     
    firstinsteele likes this.
  29. jaracer
    Joined: Oct 4, 2008
    Posts: 2,419

    jaracer
    Member

    The gears are useable, but they will probably be noisy. I think you've found the source of your noise.
     
    Montana1 likes this.
  30. "I want a new outfit . I want a new outfit." Oh wait, that's a wife-whine.... sorry!
     

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