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Technical sbf vibration

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by sunbeam, May 10, 2022.

  1. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,213

    sunbeam
    Member

    Had a guy bring me his 63 Fairlane that had a vibration that he had swaped the 221 for a 289. Turns out he used the 221 balancer and flywheel. A 221,260, and 289 use the same crank but to make up for the difference in piston weight they all use different balancer and flywheel. 62-62 221 23.1 imbalance 62-63 260 24.5 imbalance 64 26.2 imbalance 289 28.2
     
  2. oldiron 440
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 3,299

    oldiron 440
    Member

    Did you get it fixed?
     
  3. Aren't SBFs a joy? Those of us using one also have to sort out pulley sizes - crank and water pump - and flexplates - counterbalance weights and tooth count. That doesn't even include motor mounts, distributors, timing sprocket thickness, etc. SBC and SBM folks, we envy your limited choices and abundant cross-fits.
     
    warbird1, Johnboy34, Dave Mc and 3 others like this.
  4. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,213

    sunbeam
    Member

    got 289 stuff on the way
     

  5. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,264

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I do like the SBF, but I won't buy a used one to work with unless it has a complete accessory drive set, and is running in a vehicle.

    I have gone down the rabbit hole of the seemingly semi-monthly design changes that they went through with the parts on the outside, one too many times.
     
  6. oldiron 440
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 3,299

    oldiron 440
    Member

    Did you get a damper to match the pulleys, 3 or 4 bolt….?
     
  7. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,213

    sunbeam
    Member

    The damper and pulley and flywheel all came off the same 6 bolt 289 because the swapped in 289 was a 6 bolt and the trans stuff is already changed.
     
  8. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,861

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    It's not only Fords, Back about 30 years ago my brother bought a great looking black Chevy square body 3/4 ton 4x4. Trans went bad and he had a guy rebuild it and replace the flexplate for the "400" that it was supposed to have in it at the same time, He drove it over here and it had a Vibration in it. Brought it out to me at the school shop and we got to checking and ran the casting number on the block and did some more checking and =350, knocked the counter weight off the flexplate and it smoothed right out pretty as you please.
     
  9. oldiron 440
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 3,299

    oldiron 440
    Member

    I’m talking about the holes for the pulley that goes on the damper and how it attaches to the damper, if the car had a damper from a 260 it was 3 bolts. I know the 64 289 had the same 3 lower pulley and that’s probably why the 260 damper was used. Ford changed the lower pulley and damper to 4 bolts sometime after 64 so if you ordered a general 289 damper it will most likely have 4 bolts.Summit at one time had 3 bolt 289 dampers.
    This is one of Fords pain in the ass ideas.
     
    mad mikey likes this.
  10. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,213

    sunbeam
    Member

    The parts are used the damper and pulleys are coming together.
     
    oldiron 440 likes this.
  11. The 3/4 bolt thing drives me nuts.
     
  12. Oh, yeah, and if the fuel pump cam is two-part, you will need a different camshaft sprocket than if the fuel pump cam is one part. Ask me how I know. The fuel pump cam interfered with the inside of my timing cover when using the sprocket recommended by the aftermarket manufacturer. Did some measuring and learned that a different sprocket should be used. Learned about that from someone on the interweb. SBF is a series of unnecessary exceptions.
     
  13. oldiron 440
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 3,299

    oldiron 440
    Member

    lol, good luck with Ford pulley’s …
     
    gimpyshotrods likes this.
  14. Relic Stew
    Joined: Apr 17, 2005
    Posts: 1,208

    Relic Stew
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    They changed that when the water pump inlet changed sides. When the inlet changes sides, the timing pointer changes sides. The 3 bolt damper has timing marks for a passenger side inlet, the 4 bolt has marks for the driver side inlet.
     
  15. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,213

    sunbeam
    Member

    From what I remember SBC s moved there marks too.
     
  16. On m 77 351W I decided to change my drivers-side water pump outlet to passenger side to make it easier (and about $100 cheaper) to connect to a SBC IMG_2216.JPG -oriented radiator. So with a 68 302 water pump, I had to change the timing mark and arrow. This is what I made out of some 18-gauge sheetmetal and by cutting two marks -TDC and 10 BTDC - into the damper with a hack saw. Its not complicated, just another SBF annoyance.
     
    MO_JUNK likes this.
  17. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,264

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Sure, but you can just look at the block code to figure out which timing tab you need.
     
  18. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,213

    sunbeam
    Member

    But Balancers interchange and so do timing covers
     
  19. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,264

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    And all you need do is look at the block code to see if yo have the right stuff.
     
  20. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,213

    sunbeam
    Member

    All I do is remove a valve cover and turn the engine TDC exhaust to where the intake and exhaust valves are open the same amount And look at the mark if it not real close to 0 you got the wrong stuff or the mark has slipped.
     
    MO_JUNK likes this.
  21. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,264

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    In my 45-years of working on the SBC as a platform, I have yet to find a slipped damper ring.

    I have seen a few come clean off, but none that have slipped and remained functional.
     
  22. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,213

    sunbeam
    Member

    So if the cam timing is Ok and the line is off you have mixed 12:00 and 2:00 parts
     
  23. MO_JUNK
    Joined: Jan 22, 2006
    Posts: 1,197

    MO_JUNK
    Member
    from Rolla, Mo.

    Quick question while so many SBF guys present. I am replacing my worn 78’ 351 with a low mileage 302. Are there any spacers that will allow use of my 351 distributor in the 302?
     
  24. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,213

    sunbeam
    Member

    The engine is happy with 66 289 balancer and flywheel.
     
    Gotgas likes this.
  25. Bob Lowry
    Joined: Jan 19, 2020
    Posts: 1,488

    Bob Lowry

    Soooo right....one reason that me and my family have always been SBC kind of people...just my experience...
     
  26. 6sally6
    Joined: Feb 16, 2014
    Posts: 2,459

    6sally6
    Member

    Nope!
    (I never heard of one!)
    Duraspark distribs. are so cheap...... no real need to try and "save" a 351 Duraspark.
    Special springs & weights.....should interchange.
    6sally6
     
    MO_JUNK likes this.
  27. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,264

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You can get a reman for about $72, and one from a yard for $15-25.

    I guess a spacer could be made, but time and materials aren't free.
     
  28. MO_JUNK
    Joined: Jan 22, 2006
    Posts: 1,197

    MO_JUNK
    Member
    from Rolla, Mo.

    Thanks for your replies. I am running a GM style HEI distributor in my 351. I was hoping I could transition it to the 302. I chose the HEI because I have a number of those distributors and parts. I have a long history of Chevrolets. The 302 came with a points distributor so I will get it running in that mode and look at options. I appreciate your input.
     
  29. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,213

    sunbeam
    Member

    A 302 and a 351 distributor is the same Leight the rub is the oil pump drive size
     
    MO_JUNK likes this.
  30. MO_JUNK
    Joined: Jan 22, 2006
    Posts: 1,197

    MO_JUNK
    Member
    from Rolla, Mo.

    Sunbeam, thank you. I did not realize there was a difference in that aspect as well. From this thread I have learned about the 4-3 bolt difference on dampeners. I could have swapped in one of my SBC’s with a chevII pan but I really want to keep my 57’ all Ford. Will the 302 auto flywheel work with my 351 starter? 82F0DC2F-4AEB-4CC9-BE3B-80E1F52E1451.jpeg
     
    ffr1222k and X-cpe like this.

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