Technical ***May 2022 Banger Meet Thread - May Your Banger Run***

Interesting- years ago, Herb (ebtm3) mentioned that someone had said the '28 Chevy 2 port head actually flowed better than the Olds 3 port... never got any proof (and one look at the intake chamber... chasm, or whatever hides behind those steel tubes pressed into the head would tell you otherwise), but I'd love to see a comparison

 

just got up ....................

 

@panhead_pete - Yeah, unfortunately Andrews doesn't cover seatbelt installation for roadsters in his book. Ultimately I've just got to find a good place to drill and bolt in, but also to avoid shearing under stress. My current "seat" isn't really a seat, it's just two cushions that fit in that space and mostly stay put. I've got a fixed back Glide seat ordered, but it won't be here for months.

Also, I've already been following your dedicated thread closely. I'm going to order the same belts thanks to your recommendation.

I'm right behind you, as I'll soon be moving to wire wheels, 750s/600s, and dropping my fenders at some point. I just keep getting distracted by driving it instead of working on it, which is fine by me.

Trying to figure out how you have these great cars in Japan. There must be a story there. Really like what you're doing.

Hope to get some time on the car this weekend.

 

Was just reminded that it was hill climb day in Auburn, CA... just down the street from me, and I can’t make it!

Hopefully others will post pics...

 

If it's really down the street, be careful backing out of your driveway.

 

Thanks for following along I had not planned to buy the A but had bought a 34 3W in Maryland and got shipping quotes and there wasn't much difference in pricing between a 20ft and 40ft out of NY so I started to look around for vehicles to fill a 40ft which I would sell on arrival to offset the cost of the 34.

I picked up the A and a nice panhead plus the tires now fitted, an Okie Joe 34 drilled Axle, rear T spring and quite a few service items. When they all got here I was stoked the A was in such good mechanical shape. It runs like a champ thanks to John, the previous owner who really looked after it and was also straight up about any issues, which there are very few of and are minor. Current plan is get it registered and drive it this summer whilst comtinue to work through the 34 which doesnt need a lot but still has a bit of work to get it ready for rego here. After that Im not sure if the A will stay or not as our business which is based on international tourism has been slammed by COVID

 

Ready for the Nats.

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@panhead_pete - that 34 is pretty much my dream car. You are definitely having an enviable amount of fun - thanks for bringing us along for the ride.

 

Looks good. That’s how I installed mine.

 

Haven't posted anything on here in years, although I bought a 1913 Ford T racing car a few year ago with racing history and documentation. It was competive on MA and NH 1/2 an 1 mile tracks between 1918 to 1921 with an engine with 16 Valve Roof head with a counter balanced T size which broke that has stayed with the car for the last 100 years. It was replaced with the Fronty engine by the 2nd owner sometime after 1929. Just getting going on it and gattering a few external missing parts for the two engines. The first is 176 CI Fronty racing engine with a Fronty SR two-port rocker arm racing head it last raced with.

I'm going to start out with the Fronty crank, rods and pistons here. At the top is a Fronty DOHC crankshaft with 1.625 journals and Chevy four rods and Fronty pistons. Three of the pistons match and #4 is replacement with a slightly different dome shape. With them and the two-port SR head the CR is to 8:1

The second is a very advanced early '20s Green Engineering flathead racing engine sleeved down by Green to 122 CI to meet the AAA engine size limit at the time. By using lighter rods and pistons and an innovative combustion chamber these engines would rev to 5000 with two carbs and 6000 RPM fitted with one of Green's superchargers. It was never in the car but it maybe be used in it someday.

Below is the Green shaft fitted and with bored out and balanced Ford rods and Green aluminite alloy pistons cast from aluminum and nickel. "Pop" Green stated that the lighter weight of the smaller pistons with only two rings and lightweight Ford rods and the high CR as being a part of the package that allowed it to rev up to 6,000 rpm. He also stated that the lower reciprocating weight of both lead to longer bearing life. This crank has 1.625" mains and 1.375" rod journals and full circular webs.

 

Ooooo! Hard core banger porn!

 

Somehow my goofy old brain has gotten started thinking about hanging a water pump on my B engine with modern bearings and a carbon seal.
I don't care for the afterthought look of the V-8 pumps on an adapter hanging off the front of the head and obviously pumping hot water out of the top of the engine is less efficient than pumping cool water into the bottom.
There appears to be a large variety of aftermarket water pumps for the Model T engines and some are pretty sleek and sexy looking, haha. Currently there are a half dozen styles on ebay and mostly priced at under 75 bucks. Here are a couple examples.


I think I could fairly easily build a replacement drive assembly for either of these that would use a modern water pump bearing and carbon seal. I'm already sort of thinking about a serpentine belt setup so driving the water pump off the back of the belt just above or behind the alternator might work alright. Looks like I'd need to make a custom oil fill tube, no worries there.
Here is my question, are the water inlet bolt flanges the same or similar size on Model T, A and B engines? This is not a project that is going to happen right away, just organizing my thoughts and possibly gathering some parts and ideas.

 

Looks real good Dan....how does it run?

 

I don't know the answer to your question but I'm having great luck with the lip seals and new stainless shafts available thru your friendly Model A house. You change the cartridge and install the new shaft. It can be purchased with an impeller too. It's a pretty easy job. Collectively probably over 30,000 miles, with the one, with the most miles, being about half that. No more leaking packing and three row/10 fin per inch Brassworks radiators with a 3# cap solved the cooling problems.
Just did a round trip to Denver and back plus another 100 + miles on top of that with the garage crawl
Couldn't get the defoggers to work in the snow at Monument pass...about 10 miles of it. Other than that, trouble free and the Riley flat headed B motor moved me 65 mph to and from no problem

 

I had no problems with the leakless pump parts on my last 29 Tudor, but sometimes a guy just doesn't need a logical reason to waste a lot of time on something that he thinks is pretty cool and definitely different from the rest, haha.
That doesn't look like I remember your hillside home in Zuzuzax.

 

here is at the beginning...the other is Denver. I thought about the cool factor...I'll take a inlet fitting down to the T later and compare... after a while. Got to get home first

 

@Fabber McGee here's a pic of Charlie Yapp's cabin speedster Model A with a T accessory pump.

 

I haven't tried to bolt a T pump on the A/B block, but I use the same engine stand mount that mounts to the water inlet on both engines. The location in relationship to the oil pan rail is different, but that shouldn't effect you here.


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I'm very happy with the results.

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I think so
Let us know

 

Haha, looks like Charlie Yapp didn't want anyone to miss the fact that he changed pumps. Surprised he missed the oil fill tube.
Thanks guys. It appears that the A bolt flange might be a bit wider, not enough to need big mods. Anyone else got pictures?

 

@Fabber McGee , Don't buy a pump for $75, got to the MTFCA site and ask for a pump. Most guys use them as wheel chocks. On a stock T, they serve no useful purpose if everything else is in working order.

 

Model T water pumps are one of the greatest multi tools of all time, and is even said to have inspired the invention of the Swiss Army knife! Uses include wheel chocks, door stops, paper weights, book ends, fishing weights, boat anchors... and on rare occasion are even known to pump water!

 

I got eight T water pumps for free at Hershey last year, guy was using them to hold down the tarp on his dollar parts pile. eBay is a wonderful thing............

 

That's a interesting idea. Unless you can find a T pump with a larger pump housing and impeller than what is on your car I don't think any of them will cool your B because they don't move enough water even if you speed it up.

If if you look down the radiator neck and compare the intake flow you will see that an A or B pump moves about twice as much water as a T pump. The T pumps put out a gurgle instead of a decent flow.

I would look for an exterior-mounted pump from a teens or early twenties car with a bigger impeller with more vanes than what you have now and adapt and rebuild it.

 

David, Check your email. Bob

 

Thanks guys, that gives me more ideas to ponder on. The stock A impeller doesn't amount to much and it's working on the hot side of the engine pushing thin expanded water, air bubbles and sometimes steam. Some of the T impellers are much more aggressive than what Henry put on the A.

Personally, I love ebay. They will show you pictures from many angles of things you didn't even know existed. You don't even need to know what to call the thing you're looking for, just type in what you have in mind and see what you get. Pretty soon you have it narrowed down to what you want and you know what most folks call it, plus what brands are available and how many styles it came in. On the way I usually find several other interesting things to consider. Ebay is a great resource.

 

This is not a cheep solution but works very well
http://www.texastparts.com/mm5/merc...ode=TTP&Product_Code=T3902-WP&Category_Code=o

John

 

I used to have a simple casting off a stationary engine that mounted a Model A water pump on the side of the A block like a Model T.

 

Thanks, I saw that. It looks like it would have an auger style impeller and driving it off the back of a serpentine belt would probably turn it the wrong direction. Cool idea and compact.