Hot Rods The "Whatever" project

That is so cool, Marty. I wish I lived close to you, so I could bring the Whatever to your shop for this part. Like I keep saying, getting my body to fit inside the body has been a real challenge. Then getting the stuff that I want or need to fit AND work raises my level of anxiety higher. And I thought making a full cage fit in a Mini was hard.

But there I had constraints and examples to plaigerize er that is to emulate. And believe it or not, there's more foot room in a Mini than that t body.

So knowing that I have to cut in the passenger door or SWMBO won't be able to ride in it, I have measured and drawn out a right side support bar like you showed earlier. The next question is should I make the left symmetric for esthetics?

And it's kind of surprising that just the small difference between the T5 and the T10 transmissions in size make a significant difference in foot room. So I'll keep everyone informed on the availability of a world class S10 T5 and the adapter should the T10 end up in the Whatever.

 

And another thing about that suggestion, I could just mount a windshield to the front of the cage, and make a roof like that t bodied super that was on a 60's issue of Hot Rod. Hmmmm

 

The Peat Bros Super won lots of big events with several different drivers. Al Pombo was one of them !

 

Wouldn't that be "super" on the street?

 

So I don't tip side to side, you're good leaning waaaay forward. I bet we could make a comedy show out of that!

Yes that case is a bit smaller than the T5, so I'll be looking for the parts to get it and the shortened T10 I have back into one usable unit. Thanks for thinking of me regarding the case...

Like I said to Josh, sooner or later I'll have half your garage in mine!

 

If you want your street car to look like a race car, I think this would be a great way to go. Especially with the nose you've chosen.

 

Marty, that looks so cool, with the sidepipes and all. Of course I wouldn't need to make the passenger door open that way.

I've been planning to run 3 inch pipes under the rear axle to the back. And as it's going to need mufflers, I was thinking about gutting some glasspacks and making inserts out of the guts to fit inside the pipes. New York State, what can I say... And I live about a mile away from the local state trooper barracks. And frequent the garage that has the contract with them for service, so I have seen troopers numerous times when there.

I'm thinking sprint style headers tucked close to the frame rails running level with them into the collectors/tailpipes. And due to the rear frame design and how much down travel it has, there's no problems with clearance at full rebound.

Time will tell if I can pull it off. The suspension stuff is easy, everything else is a learning experience as this is the first time I've attempted to build a hot rod. With all of the advice and examples to work from, I think I can do it, just not as fast as building a racecar!

And Fabber, I agree!

 

Your welcome and just funding my projects. With 4 projects trying to thin the spare parts dept. But I know the new owner will keep these parts safe!!

 

Both roll bars look WAAYYY to tall.

 

Well they still are. However I want whichever one makes the cut to be above that shiny thing in the center of the the earlier pictures. How high is yet to be determined. I've been watching Ian Roussel's Full Custom Garage show on the boobtube, and have picked up a couple of ideas from his shows. In particular, his imagining tools. In this case it will be a long straightedge and my camera or cell phone on a tripod to figure out how high.

Or there's the friends and neighbor methods. Right Stretch?

 

Spent the afternoon with chunks of bent tubing. Finally found a path to the frame rails to support the structure for the roll bar I'm going to use. I should have copied Marty a lot more. My frame rails run parallel from front to back. Marty tapers his. Getting it wider at the back appears to make his efforts easier than the way I went. I guess that's the difference between a hack (me) and a real pro (Marty).

Oh well, live and learn. But I can get there now. And I should be able to make a working passenger door! SWMBO will be able to ride in it after all!

So while sussing the whole structure out and making a mock up for the structure using previously bent sections of tubing I have a piece to copy. 4 bends and I still have to figure out what order to make the bends. Boy do I wish I lived within a half days drive to him!

 

I do!

 

East coast... not a day trip! Oh well...

I'll make my feeble attempt later today to make it in 1 piece. We'll see...

 

On my champ car replica I made inserts for the rear which are tuneable by adding more holes.

 

Good idea! It looks like stainless steel. It'll save some poor, helpless glasspacks...

Thanks for the pictures

 

Well, it's been an interesting learning experience the last couple of days. If I do overbend a tube a little bit, thanks to the many suggestions, I'm equipped to handle it.

So I thought I had overbent one end of a short 3 bend tube, when in fact I had gotten turned around in my head, and bent the end 2 angles the opposite of what they were supposed to be. As it turned out, that bar fit better, so I made a new one, being extremely careful to get the bends the same this time.

Now these tubes have all 3 bends in a single plane. I don't know where I saw this, so if someone recognizes this process and it's yours, take a bow, as it works.

I laid a line out on the tube along the axis, end to end, then laid out the start of the bends, CAREFULLY this time. I have marked my die where the bend starts, and I put the bend start mark at this point in the die. I then make sure the axial layout line is touching the top of the die. This way each successive bend ends up in the same plane, without having to try to set angles using any form of level. It also works for out of plane bends, if you know the angle of rotation. It requires a little math, but isn't hard to do.

Let's say two bends need to be rotated 15 degrees relative to each other. 15 degrees out of 360 is 4.16th of the circumference. And a 1.5 inch diameter tube's circumference is 4.71 inches, so 4.16th of that is 0.196 inches along the circumference. Or practically 0.2 inches. I have some very flexible steel rules from my millwright days, used for layout work just like this, that can be wrapped around tubes. Measure 0.2 minus just a bit, and draw a new reference line. Be carefull to wrap in the correct direction.

I then line that mark up with the die edge and viola, it works, just make sure you put the right end in the bender...

So here's some pictures of the support structure before welding. I figured I had succeeded in making the bends today, so I quite while I was ahead. I'll check my work tomorrow, and then do the welding. Besides it's almost time for another social calendar event, i.e. a doctor's office visit for SWMBO.
In case you are curious, the joints in 3 areas of the tubing have internal sleeves twice the the diameter of the outer tube, and are the same wall thickness. Each joint will have a butt weld that penetrates to that sleeve, and 4 rosette welds per side half a diameter from the ends.

I still have to make some landing pads for the front legs, and under supports. The rear legs are a fug snit into a pair of tubes that will be welded to the frame and gusseted. They are 1.75 od x 0.125 wall dom. The legs will be bolted with 2 each 3/8 bolts. But to keep the inner tube from collapsing, I'll be making some heavy wall crush tubes that fit inside the 1.5 inch tube.

So some progress, slow but steady lately...

 

Nice work Dave!

 

Beautiful work!!

 

You two are too kind! Compared to Marty's work, well there's no comparison. But it makes me happy! Seriously thanks...

I've been texting my nephew, and we've been planning next steps. He's on deck in the future for fiberglass repair and replace. Also started thinking ahead to a floor. And steering column support, and so many other things.

I'm going to spend a little time tomorrow cleaning up the garage from the last 3 days, and updating the to do list. And I'll be perusing other threads for more inspiration.

 

Nice bends!

 

Question for you: in your thread today you showed the punch you use for making screw holes. Did you use that for punching the inserts? I bet it would work for that, and possibly help lower the sound pressure level even more. Where did you get the punch and will it fit an air hammer?

 

Bought a new angle gauge yesterday. Used it today while making 2 new practice/layout bends.
It's a lot easier to use than my old worn out vernier angle gauge, very easy to read the angle. The bend in the picture is 1.5 inch tubing bent to 90 degrees. Look closely and you can see the layout marks I made on it. Before bending I laid out a neutral axis line, and marked every inch along it. They are permanent, not just the Sharpy marks that are visible.

Did the same thing for the 1 inch tube I'll be using to remake the steering column support hoop. As the die is 180 (well 220 degrees actually, but how do you get the tubing off when bent that far), I made this one 180 degrees. It makes it easy to lay out the bends I'm going to be making. After helping the neighbor later with a dog run project I'll get back to the garage and the whatever project. First a little welding, then make steering support... well that's the plan anyway!

 

Nope not gonna happen! After making a simple post and pivot for Marvel, that's the neighbor's dog, and then Bob and me driving it into the ground, you know "when I nod my head hit it!", I'm done for the day. It's amazing how much time can get used for simple projects...

 

Okay I'm slow. Got a little bit of welding done this afternoon. The stuff previously shown is tack welded so I'll be able to take it out and remove the body to finish welding it without damaging the body. yeah I know, BFD, right? But I also made flanges for the bottom of the forward braces, and cut the body to fit.

Made a new cowl support hoop from 1x0.125 inch tube. Laid it out and bent it paying attention to everything determined from the practice bend, and son of a gun, it worked, first time! Flanges next, and figure out some bracing and support for the steering column.
And the last picture is of the mess! It's got to be cleaned up before I kill myself moving around the garage. And wasting time looking for stuff. So that's all... I'm such a slacker compared to most of you!

 

No Dave, For the insert I used a heavy walled stainless tube so it would have been tough to put a punch through it, especially without any backup inside. I drilled mine. But if you are making the baffle from thinner gauge stainless you could punch them I recon. I think you are right - the belled pierced holes would probably attenuate the noise better.
I inherited the pierce punch from my dad who was a body repair man. He had his own body shop for a time. I do not know if they are still available, perhaps on the internet?

I admire your tube bending skills and capabilities. I do have one suggestion about doing the finish welding on the cage. Bolt it back on the frame after you remove the body. Just a teeny bit of distortion along those longish tubes can move the mounting points big time, making attachment difficult. Good luck with your fine project.

 

Thanks for the punch information. I'll have to try the internet and see if I can find one. I suppose one could be made for a rattle gun. Start with a punch of some sort and grind to shape. And if I loose the temper, just heat and quench...

Yes that's the plan. I have to drill holes for the mounting flanges before I pull it apart, then replace the structure on the chassis, weld, and get the blue crescent out to relax any stresses from welding. But first I still have to get the seats mounted, the steering column attached, and decide on the roll hoop height and position.

You know how it goes: each step leads to at least 4 more. And not necessarily in the order expected. And I really have to clean up the garage first! And figure out what to do with the new steel currently residing under the Whatever project. Talk about trip hazards!

But first the F1 race... Red Bull appears to be the best this year. I'm still betting that Mercedes will figure out their problems, but won't be champions this year.

Update: migraine day. Nothing accomplished, nothing ruined! Oh well...

 

Cleaned up the garage yesterday, and puttered around with transmission parts. Yes I have a T5 and the adapter for it and know what clutch disc and pressure plate to get. I also have a T10 that was shortened to use in a drag car. Now I have a complete case for it, with unmolested tailhousing parts.

But to make it a complete working transmission, I need to get reverse gear parts and a new main shaft. Everything I have is appropriate for an early 60's GM version aluminum case T10. The shorty is a 2.20 low gear transmission. Should be a good match for the Whatever project with the qc.

So now I have to acquire the parts. I'm open to suggestions for sources, just remember that I'm not too capable of using this internet thing. If anyone has one with a busted case or bad syncros or the like, and wants to part with it, let me know. Also willing to discuss trading the S10 T5 and the adapter for a working T10.

Well back to the garage and cleaning up and next making a dedicated stand for the tube bender....

 

Clean garage, dirty mind!
New steel stored.

And test fit the seats in the Whatever project for the first time after fabricating the rear support structure. Guess I'll be making a new mounting something (???), because they need to be a little bit higher.
It's amazing how much a cluttered workspace clutters the mind. Without the mess, it only took 15 minutes to get that fit up and figured out the next steps.

Keep telling myself, put it back when done with it!

 

A thought just occurred to me, and I figured I should write it down if I actually wanted to do something with it other than watch it fly off into the distance in a few minutes....

If you ever think you might not want to run a "simple" 4 bbl on the 327, I've got a trio of Rochester 2bbls here that might work.... Just something to mull over when you're not doing roll cage geometry or chassis physics.

 

Hmmm??? Certainly would look the part. I wonder what Jack would say. That 650 is way too small for the 400 however. We're going to have to get the biggest of the Holley carburetors to feed that one. My injectors are not even big enough. When that thing was injected, it had 2 7/16 Hilborns. And yes it should be milder, we just have to remember that it was intended for a racecar. The cam, heads, and compression combination are set to all start really working at around 4000 rpm, and I wanted usable power to 6500ish rpm. There's a positive side however, and that's the valve train should be stable to 8k rpm, so if you miss a shift, or downshift into a rev range over the power band, it shouldn't be a problem with the valve train.