Vintage Pickup Drivetrain Conversion

DISCLAIMER: I started this project on another forum, but not using it anymore, and will post here as I work on this. This first post is gonna be long, so if you don't care for long posts please just ignore and go to another thread. I also labeled this as a generic vintage pickup thread, since this is such a common problem with vintage cars and trucks.

First and brief, if possible, explanation. I have a '46 Chevy pickup and want to drive it comfortably on the highways, but it requires most of the drivetrain a replaced, and even the engines were low power in the day. My truck had already had mods, but all were in the vein of the era, and want to do the same. I have a newer '54-'62 235, but the block is from '53 and/or has a '53 flywheel. It is converted to 12v but has a 6v starter that was converted to 12v to keep the starter pinion the same for the flywheel. Is your brain hurting yet? j/k

Additionally, my '46 had a torque tube driveshaft, and those can't be adapted to more modern transmissions easily, like a 5 speed overdrive to help on the highway as well. I had a stock 3-speed trans and stock torque tube and stock rear axle/gearing.

In my case I'm doing this to a '46, but the T5 is one of the most common transmissions for most mid-powered engines, and most folks that go to V8s seem to use automatics that can handle the RPMs as well...I believe the T56 or TKO or TKX was Tremec's solution to a manual that would take more power, such as a V8, but the T8 is intended for medium-duty trucks, but the T5 is small and intended for light-duty trucks. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but that is the reason so many people use the T5 in the old trucks, and if you have a bench seat you need the version for the S10 where it has the shift as far forward as possible.

Ok, with all that said to set the ground work for what has been done, let's get some pics...

I bought a '55 Series 2 entire drivetrain from a guy building a hot rod out of the truck, I got the rear axle, open driveshaft, 3 speed transmission (same as in my pickup now), bell housing with the '54 on forward bolt pattern, the clutch, et al. Note I can use my existing 6 lug wheels with this 6-lug pattern.


I bought a full rebuild kit for the T5 from Transparts Wharehouse in Redding, CA. You can find them on Ebay, but I bought direct from them to eliminate Ebay out of their pocket. This kit includes all the syncros and seals and bearings.


I found this '95 WC T5 on craigslist for $350, but didn't realize how much extra the WC would require, I do feel it's a better transmission than the NWC which used the mechanical speedo as my '46 does. This also required sending the tailshaft to Alloy Specialties in WA, Dan did an amazing job, it came back bead blasted and ready to primer and paint. I used etching primer for aluminum and used silver heat paint for engines.


The original ring/pinion in the '46 were 4.11:1, I got a set of 3.38:1 set from JoeM at Mother Trucker Trucks, who does hang out on here at least some, AFAIK. I had a set I had bought to put in the torque tube carrier, but JoeM graciously swapped them for me with a set for the Series 2 axles. Later I would find out the T5 had been rebuilt and I could have saved myself a lot of time and cost by just having used it as I bought it, but I wanted to make sure I only had to go into this transmission once for my life, and it could last for my son's also when he inherits it. I wasn't sure how to tell if it was rebuilt or not, as it was a learning process. I have never rebuilt a transmission before.


And the 2nd last piece of the puzzle is the adapter plate to go from a Ford bolt pattern on the WC T5 to my '46 bell housing. This will save me from having to modify the pedals and/or if I need parts I can get stock '46 parts to repair them. The pedals connect to the bell housing, so even if I used the bell housing for the Series 2, I would need to modify my pedals. So I'm sticking with my original bell housing and got the adapter from Dave Farwell at Vintage Metalworks. He also makes an adapter to go from the T5 to the my bell housing or the newer '54-'62 bell housing, but he made this special for me with the Ford pattern to the '46 bolt pattern.


I need one more piece to close the loop on this puzzle. That is the clutch. The input shaft on the '95 S10 is a modern 26 spline and the '46 has a 10 or 11. I will need to have a custom clutch made with the correct diameter that uses a 26 spline clutch plate. I'm not sure if I will need to cut the 3/4" off the driveshaft or not, but when I do pull my 3-speed after I have everything rebuilt, I'll measure to make sure.

I don't claim to know everything about these conversions, but I bought new bearings for the rear axle, and seals and it was difficult to find some of the parts for the old rear axle, and had good luck cross referencing at Michigan Bearing. They were kinda snotty to deal with but the margins must have been so low for the prices I paid I'm surprised I got them. The outer/inner wheel bearings and the Carrier bearings were tough to find, but I got them all, outer wheel bearings came from Jim Carter as I couldn't cross reference anything made to this day.

 

With that first post out of the way to explain this project, I had disassembled and it was taking time to figure all of this puzzle out, and my office shares the area with hand tool work, and this is where I'm rebuilding the T5. It had gotten horrendously messy, to the point I couldn't work on this. I just got it cleaned last week and got all the parts spread out.

On the left is the T5 and on the right by my area for hand work with metal related and/or greasy stuff is on the right, and that is the carrier I'm rebuilding. It has the ring on, but I need to replace the driveshaft pinion with the new pair.


I have thread sealant, gasket maker, anti-seize, and synth atf which the WC T5 uses. I had a lot of reloading supplies as I used to reload ammo here, but sold my Dillon press so don't go to the range anymore, mostly because how fubar our country is, and especially California. All my receivers are locked in my safe, I hope I don't need to use them...Molon Labe as they say!



This weekend I'm hoping to get this back together. My garage is a complete disaster as I moved all the reloading supplies out there and had to fill the isle between the machines. I had busted my 12-ton HF frame (it was fixable), so I used it as an excuse to get an American made 20-ton Arcon (sister to Carolina). I'm in the process of pimping that up, but can use it as-is to press the couple bearings on to get the T5 back together I believe. I gave the HF 12-ton to a high school kid that hangs out here on the H.A.M.B. and building up a '55 Ford Truck, so I felt good to give that to him and help him out. Not too many kids interested in doing this stuff these days, we need to pass any knowledge or help to them when we can, my $0.02.

 

I had first thought that also, but the pedals won't work with the '55 bell housing which has a slightly larger bolt pattern. Both the older bell housing and the new '55 bell housing will adapt to the 235. The 235 is a '53 block with a '54-'62 high compression head, this was a problem with the 6v starter. I originally sent my original starter to Jim Carter to rebuild, he kept that as a core, sent me a rebuilt 6v starter. I installed that and had the same intermittent starting problem. It would work fine, and then it would not be able to turn the engine over. To me it seemed that if the cam was in a certain position, possibly the starter couldn't start it.

This was a failure on my part, at this point. I didn't try a 12v battery, I used 2/0 welding cable, and crimped proper sized lugs/post with a hydraulic hex crimper, new ground also of same 2/0 welding cable. Also replaced the switch on top that the floor pedal stomps on. But I failed to try a 12v battery...that's ultimately what did cost me...lesson learned.

Instead, I was already thinking about converting to 12v anyway, I must have tunes, and CarPlay is preferable. I must have music from my iPhone and I plan to drive, possibly as my daily driver, so a number of mods are in store for that, but I want it to look like it does, even the cracked windshield that the crack was glued with something, not sure what, the rear glass has a crack also. I need to drive it more and see if the off-clear glass bothers me...hasn't yet but I'm not driving it much.

I have 2 x 3-speed Muncies. One in my pickup and one from the '55. I was going to rebuild the '55 and do a swap with my noisy in need of being rebuilt '46 3-speed. The 3 speed is more desirable I'm been told, but top speed is no better on either of them, both are 1:1. I originally only bought the everything in front of the axle, he had listed the axle separately (craigslist).

My original plan was 3:55 ring/pinion and keep the torque tube. I have a Okie bushing and the tool to remove the old OEM bushing. Then I started thinking about the 1:1 top end...

And just decided to go 12v conversion and bought the alternator, bracket and coil and resister. I just wanted to get things away from the ammeter bits also.

If you're still following me, out of the blue I sent an email to the seller and told him I kinda wished I would have got that axle, I thought he sold it as he pulled the ad. Well, he still had it...so I bought that.

I wouldn't say this project was as cheap as I thought it would be, but I got a good enough price on the truck, even shipping it out from MO, I like it. I also have a 3rd seat from a Tahoe (leather) to use as the seat. Mine was restored by the previous owner(s), I'm the 3rd owner, all the work was done 2 owners prior. A lot of unknowns.

With that in mind I though, well, even if I dump $2k into it, if I could have my truck to be driveable on the highway and that I can drive around town where I live, I want to drive it as my daily driver. Brakes could also be upgraded to power, but I got free parts for the front to convert to Bendix, but I did rebuilt the front Hucks, so that can wait. Main concern is getting axle cleaned and rebuilt and T5 so I have both ready to swap. I am very limited on where I can do this work so would like to swap it in the front on the street as it's flat. It's been sitting in the same spot for close to a year...

So, then Joe swapped the r/p for a set to use in the Series 2, doncha know the set won't work as the pinion is different for the torque tube. And despite what everyone says about the torque tube, I hope someone may want mine, I might give it away for free. It just doesn't mate to anything...with the r/p for the '55 Series 2, and I have the driveshaft that will connect to the T5, I'll need to shorten and move the leaf spring perches to the correct angle. That will have to happen when I swap it all out. Also I won't be able to measure my current input shaft on the T5 until I get mine out as I don't know if it was changed or not by the owner who put in the 235.

I thought the T5 I got was GM bolt pattern, lack of knowledge on my part, but I wanted the WC even though I don't need it, I want to rebuilt it once and it will last my lifetime. The way it was probably would have lasted my lifetime to be honest...but that's how hobbies are. So I either needed to make an adapter or get it from someone, and through some recommendation, Dave Farwell had done one for the Ford pattern for the torque tube, and he had done one for the smaller '46 bell housing, so he mated those for me on his CNC and made me a Ford to small GM '46 bell housing.

For the bed I have the metal strips and will us my own wood. I want to use the truck as a truck and I want to be able to haul 1000 lbs. in it. It is registered as a commercial vehicle to do so legally. I could do it with new plates, but would have to mount the front, and I like my '46 YOM plate.

I know this was long, and I don't want you to think I have bottomless pockets, most of the parts were bought used, but rebuilding everything and getting bearings for this old stuff is often not easy. I could end up with $15k into my truck, currently I think I'm on target for about $12,500-$13,500. I'm ok with $15k. So yes, you're absolutely correct, I could have saved a lot of money sticking with my original plan, but to have a '46 that really is setup to drive nicely, they require quite a bit of upgrades. Also, this is pretty much just a piece of a larger project, my retirement where my '46 will ultimately live for the rest of my life, and most likely my son's. He's also getting an '84 911...my daily driver for about 12 years. You wanna talk about buying expensive parts??? But Porsche parts are damn beautiful, works of art, IMO. (this could be my longest post to date here)

 

I thought about that Jimmy, but I really like the foot stomper, it's one of the classic pieces that is just no more...even the AD trucks eliminated the foot stomper and went to a dash buttin, I think with the Series 2 in '55, but not 100% sure on that. Also the split windshield that opens, none of those features anymore and they are a PITA to get working smoothly...still it's classic and I love that feature. Side opening hoods, they're rattly, noisy, create noise and let air through, even through the firewall...not an insignificant work to make that tolerable. Still I not only like the look but don't mind if the covers are removed with the engine exposed.

In general, as you must certainly understand, it's not cheap to turn these old classics into comfortable drivers, let along racers. Still, I think I have a manageable idea of how much I'm spending on this and hoping it will be the truck I dream of...not that show condition custom street rod, and not a 100% OEM restoration, but the truck is made to drive and not afraid to do it!

It will not be a truck that the VCCA would be proud of, but it is something I will be and more importantly that I will drive and not let become a garage queen.

 

TT, I'm going to be watching this thread with interest as I, too am building a '46 Chevy pu. Like you I am going for a usable driver with an updated drivetrain that I won't be afraid to drive on a gravel road, and will hopefully keep up with traffic. I put a T5 behind a 250 Chevy six with an S10 Blazer rear end, but was determined to keep the floor pedals, which took some head scratching and a lot of beer to engineer. I finally came up with something I think will work, fabbed out of 1/4" strap and rectangular tubing.
Sorry, I'm not trying to derail your thread...

 

I certainly welcome your thoughts and will pass along as much as I have learned about this conversion, which is pretty complicated, for me. The '46 Chevy (and some very early '47s, and GM pickups in '47) where the last of those classic features, the crank out windshield, side opening hoods, smaller cabs, but in comparison to my '98 2WD Tacoma I drive mostly the '46 is BIG! It's all relative.

The T5 seems like one of the best transmissions for a light duty truck, everyone I talk to says they're bulletproof. I follow a guy on IG, House Of Chop, and he's doing a complete custom street rod from a '66 C10...all the typical body/sills/fender rot, and he's using the next model up, I think it's a T56 he's using as he's putting a built big block, new suspension, wheels, paint et al and really doing it right. I could see how much larger it was when he got it and he was telling me the T5 won't handle enough power for his build, but it's a bullet proof transmission. And the T56 is also a manual stick, it's a 6-speed as I recall. Consider that depending on the engine you plan. He has a great Chevelle also with a built big block. He's basically doing a frame off build, tig welding all of the exhaust (new stainless), just a top notch build.

No worries at all, I'll offer a my thoughts, not trying to influence but just pass along info.

Previous owner had redone my hard lines and added a dual reservoir master, but it's not the type you have it's the type with one larger reservoir. I think the split with 2 the same size as you have is better. I don't have the booster either, are you planning to use one? Convert to disc? Hindsight on most of this, but I'm learning some. I rebuilt the front brakes (Huck, the OEM '46) with all new parts, and had the pads and drums arc ground. My rear axle and torque tube are still intact.

Along the way a guy in San Luis Obispo had some Bendix brakes he gave me for free. They used them on the AD trucks, you can retrofit those to the '46 but the shoes and drums are not the same size, so they're not transferable. You basically need all the parts for the shoes, backing plates, cylinders, et al. The rear brakes on the '55 are Bendix, so my plan is to have Bendix on both front and back, but initially I can leave my Huck on for the conversion. Good to understand the difference between Huck and Bendix, to me the Bendix just make sense. Nothing wrong with the Hucks though. None are like disc, and the 60s disc brakes are mediocre at best, so doing disc right is not a cheap option either. The brakes are something to consider in the drive train conversions. You will need to deal with it one way or the other.

Hindsight again, I had an opportunity to buy an S10 rear end for $100, and should have done that, in fact the front axle will will fit on the '46 I'm told. I shy'd away due to the 5 lug 4.5" pattern, even plain steel wheels are $100/ea. May have been cheaper if I could have gotten a decent gear on the ring/pinion, but I don't know that I have exactly what I need/want.

The big consideration for the axles is if they will fit inside the fenders properly. I already had 15" tubeless radials on my '46, another nice bonus from Previous owner. These are just about the same diameter as the OEM bias ply, and my speedo gear in the T5 is based on the size of these 235/75R15 tires. Tires in good shape, very low miles but not top of the line tires, still, I'm gonna drive 'em down and get new rubber all the way around. I don't have a spare, that I need to get. I have AAA plus, I'll make them bring a rollback flatbed if I get a flat, but would like to have one. You just never know when you may need to do that. It won't be the first time I had to get my hands dirty changing a tire.

S10 is a good rear axle to use I'm told, and what is most important is finding an axle that the mounted tires will fit in the fender width. The '46 is '48" and the AD is '52" I believe, so it's 2" on each side. This will work, and I know people have used the Camero and Nova rear ends, sometimes you may need to change the ring/pinion. The bed is also 48", so that's where the hubs are in width I believe, but I haven't looked at the specs in some time...

The easiest T5 to use is the '83-'88 S10, those are mechanical speedos and you can attach your '46 cable to it. My T5 was from a '95 and was electronic, if you plan to use digital gauges then the '93-'95, and I think post '88, to possibly '88-'95 have electronic speedos. The speedo gears are kind of tricky, there are some for S10, some for GM, and some were for Cameros. The Camero T5 is not good for the pickups. The gearing is more for hopped up muscle cars. Trucks are different in regard to 1st gear and highway.

I drove a '42 4-speed and I found it unusable. It was a pristine restoration from about 15 years ago, it was a real purist type resto, but it drove like a hay cart and felt like it was powered by a single horse. That will not be acceptable for me, exactly as I told the seller. That was in Napa or Sonoma. Definitely plan to replace all rubber and ball joints and I think the king pins may need replacement on mine. My undercarriage is so filthy and dirty I can't wait to get it all steam cleaned. But I don't want to drive it in it's current state. The trans needs work, the driveshaft wobbles as the bushing is all wallowed, I'd just rather wait. I've had 2 cars done when I purchased them and it's the way to go.

I also got 6 baby moons, 4 are decent shape but need to have the Chevy logo repainted. My plan is to use my wheels/tires, paint the rims and refurb the baby moons which is what came on them new. I also have a heater for inside the cab and door parts to replace. My seat was refurbished by previous owner, new springs and new cover from Bowtie (they might be out of biz), he had some receipts and records of costs...I don't like it, it's too bouncy for me. Replacing with a Tahoe 3rd seat, will sell to some purist. hehehe

Thoughts on doing the conversion in general. Decide on bucket or bench seat, although S10 is desirable for all, even Camero and Mustang owners seek them out to have the shifter forward. Seats could determine shifter placement. The room between your legs and steering wheel should be considered. Seats that are too high will cramp your legs. Even replacing the steering column to a more modern tilt, that could make it more convenient, but I don't find the drivers seat terribly uncomfortable, it could be a bit more spacious. Ford transmissions will not easily swap with a GM transmission, the input shaft gear is wrong for the countershaft and the gearing on the different models doesn't work on the vintage trucks. So keep in mind if you do find a Ford transmission which would most likely be a Mustang, you may need to swap out the entire countershaft and gears on the main shaft, so that could be costly. The only T5 offered in WC from GM is the one like I have from '93-'95. The WC has fiber syncros and needle bearings on the components, so everything is smoother. The rebuild kit is $300 vs. about $100 for the NWC. Hindsight I should have opened mine up and checked it out before leaping for the rebuild kit, but like I said, I want to clean everything up and make sure it's all assembled properly. At least this hobby ain't nearly as costly as sailboat racing...

 

Thanks for your thoughts. I've already scoped out this project as much as my feeble mind can, and am committed to a plan (not necessarily a good plan) of action. My T5 is '89 S10 NWC, elect. speedo, Blazer rear end is disc brake, and disc brake conversion on front. I thought long and hard, (and consumed a few beers) and decided to not use a booster. However I left room in the design to add one later if needed. But enough about me- I'm watching your thread!
p.s. I posted on the Art Deco truck social forum to see if it could be revived...

 

If you need any help with gearing for your truck before/after you figure out what gears and ratios you need/want, Dan up at Alloy Specialties is the guy to ping, IMO. He can convert it to mechanical as he did mine. I have a new replacement speedometer, but the rest of the gauges look ok, I am hoping for original look, but if I have any issues I will go to digital in a heartbeat. Up to you if you rebuild, just use, or whatever. You seem to be doing your homework and selecting appropriately, that's what it's all about. You will need to know the ring/pinion and trans gears, input, blah-blah, as you know, it's a giant can of worms. For those that don't mind it, can have a much nicer transmission. Nothing wrong with the original 3-speed trans either, just not good for what I need. I will have 2 of them, thinking I might try rebuilding one, there's a guy on YT that has a great video on refurbing the 3-speed from a Chevy car.

I think I might end up with disc brakes and if I wanted to do the rears I would probably be a lot cheaper to replace the rear end again...there could be retro kits and that could be better even if slightly more cost just to have what I want. I'm thinking to only retro disc on the front, which is used mostly anyway.

EDIT: As you may know, the blazer axles make a difference between 4WD and 2WD, you need the 2WD most likely. And not sure if the seats were there, but I think the buckets would work in the '46 if you go that way. S10 was the only one with the forward shifter, AFAIK.

I'm with you, but for disc that is probably needed.

It was not my intention for this to be my thread, I'll discuss anything, and if I don't no worries...that's what's great about these forums, email, text, whatever...I posted on that FB page a number of times, but I don't like FB. One thing about all of this is that Ford truck are better off with Ford gearing since the input shaft is a different spline, so either use Ford or get a custom clutch built as I will need to do anyway. The guy I bought the T5 from was going to put it in a mid-60s F-100, but he ran into the problem as I have with the Ford bolt pattern, trying to figure out the splines, input shaft gearing, countershaft, blah-blah...even the tailshaft has a different output for the main shaft, so those splines are also different. Caveat Emptor!

I created this to be a generic thread for just as the title says, and your truck fits in PERFECT!

As you can see, I'm not shy to talk about just about anything!

 

I just saw this video that JayA did, he goes by the username of Lugnutz, really helpful guy. This is a good explanation of the different S10 T5s. This bell housing he shows is for a Chevy. This also works both ways, so if you have a Ford bell housing the '94-'95 WC would be the preferred.

However, be warned, Ford often requires a spline to match in the input and output of the main shaft, and the countershaft is pretty much solid but the input shaft needs the correct Ford/Chevy splines. This needs align with the clutch as well.

 

The following is another video that Jay did on calculating the T5 gears. This would work the same with another transmission, say if you had a Ford transmission you were using.

 

I calculated my ratios in a little simpler way- I made a cardboard dial face to put on the front of the trans graduated in ten equal markings, put a pointer in the input shaft and one on the tailshaft, and counted the revolutions in each gear to one of the output shaft. I counted 3.75 in low gear, 2.18 in second, 1.42 in third, of course 1.0 - 1.0 in fourth, and .75 in OD. By the specs the factory says 3.76 low is available (pretty close) 2.18 spot on, 1.41 (close again) for third, and .72 OD. My 4x4 S10 axle is a 3.42. I was shooting for a 3.55, but this fell in my lap. I think the torque of the 250 will handle it OK. With normal size tires I should be about 2K rpm at hiway speed.
I straightened the stock shifter a little to clear the seat and turned up an extension for it. For better or worse, my drivetrain is pretty well finished

 

The guy that did that video above has another one, but it was a private link which I can't seem to find, he recommends using a 2nd person if you can to count the driveshaft as it spins. I just think it's best to count each tooth as some of the gears are only 1 tooth off, albeit that won't make too much difference.

I've seen guys using tape on the driveshaft and inner fender as an index. It all works, but I still think the best is to open and count the actual gears to know exactly what you have inside any given transmission.

As often is the case. In my case the T5 was a double edge sword. It is exactly what I needed gear wise, the OD .86 and because the ring/pinion available for my '55 Series 2 axle is 3.38:1, but for the Series 1 the available set was/is 3.55:1, and depending on which one the truck has, either one could be a better fit.

Of course knowing the ring/pinion as well as trans gears is not something that can be seen for certain until opening things up and/or draining them first.

2000 RPM is perfect, you don't want to get most of the Inline 6s over 3000 RPM I've been told, I haven't gotten far enough to start dialing in the tuning.

Can you elaborate on this a bit more. Your shifter looks longer than the S10 shifter I got with mine. Did you adapt a longer one somehow? The cover looks much different on yours.

The other thing I wanted to mention is that I just replaced stock 14" wheels and tires on a '98 Tacoma, with 15" wheels and tires from a same year pickup. It's about 2.5" longer in circumference, so it works out to close to 10%, I'm gonna use it for ease of calculating.

I currently pay $6/gal for gas it fluctuates some, but for each of calculating I'm gonna use $6/gal.

I will save $0.60/gal with the added mileage. Not sure if the speedo will be off. In the case of my T5 the guy that modified the tail shaft for me added the proper speedo gear for the size tires I have on my truck, 235/75R15 or 235/70R15, much more common size than 195/70R14.

10% saving on gas will be much appreciated. Will probably require more power to spin the wheels/tires, but for all the miles on mostly level ground will be a savings for certain.

 

If you notice there are 2 pr vise grips on the shifter box temporarily holding it together. I took it apart to heat and bend the stock lever forward. I made the extension out of 3/4" round stock to screw over the stock shifter.

 

Jerry,

Thanks so much, this is one piece I hadn't given too much thought, although I knew the original shifter is short, I just figured I would address that when I got to that point, which could literally be close to done...but this helps me a bunch, I can just turn a section on my lathe like it looks like you did. Yours looks great.

Thanks for jumping in this thread, that tip will help me as well as others doing this type of conversion.

 

Clutch and Input shaft splines

This is something that changes with each application I would imagine as the year of the bell housing vs the bolt pattern vs getting everything to fit correctly. In my case I have a 10 spline clutch plate and the input shaft needs to fit onto it.

The '95 S10 T5 I'm using has a 26 spline and my '46 bell housing has a clutch with 10 splines. I was reminded of the Jeep input shaft recently which I had known about but I had been thinking to have a custom clutch made as I was told they have better material these days. I have 2 clutches with 10 spline though, and this would allow a stock OEM clutch when needed.

This guy explains it pretty good, I had watched when he put the '56 trans in his car, and I went through the same scenario he did, even have a similar Series 2 rear axle which I replaced the ring/pinion already. On top of that you got the speedometer gears to worry about as well...like in the antiquated lane is complicated...I might not need to cut the input shaft as I have a 3/4" adapter plate to mate my Ford bolt pattern to the GM pattern bell housing.



I ordered this Jeep input shaft and it should be here Saturday.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/121645645590

 

I had watched Lugnutz' tutorial and, just like you decided to use the Jeep 10 spline input to simplify clutch choice. However, instead of shortening the bearing retainer as much as he suggests, and nipping off the pilot end of the shaft, I used the spacer plate from Vintage Metal Works to gain more clutch spline engagement.

 

Yes, this is why I'm hoping that I won't need to use the spacers or cut the input shaft down as others have done. You can make it work either way.

Dave Farwell made me the adapter to go from the older narrow GM bolt pattern to the Ford pattern used on the '94-'95 T5s, and that plate is the 3/4" difference.

The spacers give you some room if you need to modify something else, like the drive shaft, as an example. That way you could adjust the u-joint on the trans side. I guess in thinking about it, you could adjust the carrier side as well and take up the slack...and if it was too long you would need to cut it down again...so never mind...

Either way, you need to account for the difference between the input shaft to the pilot pushing and you got it. Saving the clutch is a helpful thing for me. Just a better chance of finding an OEM or replacement for OEM than it would to get a new clutch made if it wears out. Depends on how long one has their truck I 'spose... I'm not exactly sure about mine, I plan to have it until I die...I just don't know when I'll die! Plus, I plan on my son to get it after I'm gone and OEM will definitely be easier to get...

 

Jerry,

I got my input shaft today and I think I see a slight problem on the one I bought, not sure which one you bought.

This was the one I bought.
[removed text, I screwed up]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/121645645590

EDIT: holy flock sheepman, I completely screwed up...this is a 20 tooth 10 spline, not a 21 tooth 10 spline...this is all my fault for not ordering the part number that MT offroad posted on YT in the video I posted above...lesson learned...not the first time I ordered the wrong car part...

 

Ok folks, after you get done laughing on that last post, I already got a return shipping label from the vendor, but it's costing me $14 for shipping. Live and learn...I wish I could tell you all with confidence that this will be the last time I do that...

Here's a link to a thread that has all the T5 info here on the H.A.M.B., a great help to understand the input shaft lengths.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/s10-t5-input-shaft-lengths.937403/

There's a link in the 2nd post to the Ultimate T5 Document at: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/tech-ultimate-t-5-article.171291/

the Here's the input shaft lengths for both NWC and WC

Jerry,

I think this is what I need, it might be the proper length for me also with the correct spline and gear for a WC.

https://ampdistributing.com/products/gm-t5-world-class-21-tooth-10-spline-input-shaft

But I think for you, this seems like what you need, it says NWC and is the same price. It also looks like you would not have to cut it down, it's already 8-3/4" long.

https://ampdistributing.com/products/gm-t5-non-world-class-21-tooth-10-spline-input-shaft

What do you think? I'm feeling gunshy after that first mistake, but I want to find out what the return policy is at Amp. I see now it's 20% restocking and doesn't say anything about shipping, I think we know what that means...

EDIT: I went ahead and pulled the trigger and added a comment to contact me if it was wrong, but they have a comment on both of those pages that says:

Commonly used to install S10 T5WC behind GM V6/SBC applications with 10 x 1.125" clutch disc hub

And I think that describes what I'm doing, all 3 of the input shafts I have in front of me, '55 3-speed trans, '95 S10 26 T5 and the wrong one I ordered above are all 1.125" and I know I need it to be 8.750" in length. Interesting to note, the '55 GM input shaft for the 3-speed measures 8.750" from above the bottom gear, so the gear goes in the transmission they also use roller bearings. On the longer input shaft version, which is 9-1/4" (approx), it is measured from the surface to the top of the splines with the cup end on the surface. These use Timken style taper bearings with a race.

 

A brief update, my input shaft came in which will hopefully allow me to use a OEM 10 spline clutch. Here are both side by side and you can see this one is actually the proper length, so it is already 8.75". This is from Amp Distributing at this link, which I posted up above as well: https://ampdistributing.com/products/gm-t5-world-class-21-tooth-10-spline-input-shaft



A couple things to note. Speaking of note, I put a note with my online order that I wanted to order the bearing for it as I wasn't sure if my bearing from my Transparts Warehouse would fit, but these look to be the same size, even the top stepped area, so this should be all I need.

Jerry, if you're still following I am guessing you got yours, and the WC and NWC must be the same as the document on the H.A.M.B. which states them being the same, sure a H.A.M.B.STEERs couldn't be wrong, could they?

This next pic show the only thing I believe I need to take care of which is to cut down this bearing retainer I cleaned up the other night with a wire wheel, cleaned up ok.

 

As I understand it, the difference between WC and NWC is in the taper for the synchro blocker rings. NWC synchros are bronze, WC are fiber. Your bearing retainer looks longer than mine, but didn't you say you are using a F*** T5? The first picture is before I cut about 5/16" off my bearing retainer. By using the VMW spacer I didn't have to nip off the pilot end of the shaft.

 

Yes, this is true, but there's no syncro on the input shaft, the 21 tooth spins the mainshaft from the input. The WC T5 has 3 syncros, the 2 on the mainshaft are between 1st/2nd and 3rd/4th. There is a 3rd syncro for 5th gear, but that one is not fiber, it's brass like the syncros in your NWC.

Yes, it is, but it has GM gears in it. You can't mix Ford with GM or GM with Ford easily.

Yes, this means you must have purchased the Jeep input shaft, which is a similar solution as I am using, but it was created already cut to length, AFAICT, Amp Distributing seems to make this one I bought for T5 conversions, to adapt a T5 to a GM bell housing / engine.

I hope I didn't screw up again. I have an adapter to take me from Ford bolt patter to GM bolt pattern. In seeing your reply I am not sure if this shaft is 3/4" short or not. Or if I need to get the Jeep input shaft as I have an adapter. Hmmm...the saga continues...I can always replace the input shaft after I get the T5 back together, if it's too short after I pull the original 3 speed to connect the T5, driveshaft and axle.

 

I'm going to call Amp Distributors tomorrow/Monday to ask them if I bought the wrong one as I have an adapter which I know is 3/4".

RE: bearing retainer

That's the bearing retainer for the '95 S10, and in the pic you can see a 26 spline input, that's the S10 input shaft that came out of my '95 T5.

Here I thought I had it correct, but they must have made them 3/4" shorter for folks not using an adapter.

 

TT, I also got my input shaft from Amp Dist. on ebay. It was listed as Jeep 10 spline 21 T input shaft for T4 & T5. Part # on box is 346670AG. I can't give you total length because I've installed it and the trans is in the truck now. The spacer plate (not really an adapter since my stuff is all GM bolt pattern) I got from VMW is 5/8" thick. I think part of your problem is using a Ford case. It looks like the original input shaft and bearing retainer are longer than GM. Dave at VMW told me I could have just used his spacer and an S10 clutch which is 9 7/8" diam., but I had already got the 10 spline shaft and 10" Chevy clutch. I mocked mine up on the shop floor before I put the engine in the truck which was helpful. I slid the trans up to the bell housing with flywheel only ( no clutch) so I could see the depth of engagement clearly, then again with clutch & PP. This way I determined I wouldn't have to cut the pilot end of the shaft, and would have full engagement of the splines.
Of course if your 235 and truck type bell housing are in the truck, you're gonna have to work a lot harder...

 

Jerry,

Funny thing is I found the input shaft I got by searching that part number, but I don't see the part number on it. These days parts don't have part numbers on them in all cases...I don't get that...

I am not sure but will check with them on Monday. I'm glad to hear you bought yours from them, but when I search for that number I get results for 3 input shafts, one is $79.95 and that one it says is 9-5/16".

https://ampdistributing.com/products/jeep-t4-t5-5-speed-manual-transmission-input-shaft

The other 2 are 119.95 and those are for NWC and WC, but stated to be 8-3/4", and that is the one I got. I do have a 3/4" adapter plate, so I'm guessing I got the wrong one. Interesting that the same number when searched on their site show input shafts with different lengths...and the part numbers are not actually listed the same for the parts...

https://ampdistributing.com/products/gm-t5-non-world-class-21-tooth-10-spline-input-shaft

https://ampdistributing.com/products/gm-t5-world-class-21-tooth-10-spline-input-shaft

 

Maybe if you put all the parts in an old cement mixer, stirred them up and pulled them out while blindfolded, you'd get lucky!
Sorry, I'm only a smart-ass when I've been drinking.
Here's a picture of the original input shaft in my T5. 1", 14 spline. The Jeep shaft I got was a little shorter, maybe a 1/4"?
The two Amp links you posted do show a shorter shaft than what I got. I don't think they were available back then, or anyway I didn't find them.

 

I am almost certain I f#@$'d up, oh well, that's twice on this input shaft...they say the 3rd time's a charm, right?

The good thing is Amp has it and that's who I got it from, so even if I have to pay return shipping, it will only be a shipping charge loss...

No worries on being a smart @$$, I'm sure you can imagine I've played that role more than a few times in my life...my wife is getting me to be less sarcastic with my humor, but old habits are hard to break... You'd think after 35 years she would be used to it...but apparently not...

Thanks for confirming that...I'll get back with them tomorrow and confirm my stupidity. I sure am being a blockhead on this input shaft. I guess my brain is out to lunch this week. I seem to have had a misunderstanding with my doctor and she seems to think I"m going in for more blood tests... I'll tell you what, I'd rather eat this input shaft than get my blood drawn again...

 

Blood tests are easy! Colonoscopies, on the other hand...

 

On the other hand? I was thinking either hand!

FWIW, I have never had a colonoscopy, and I didn't even know they just do a stool test and only do more testing such as the colonoscopy if they see detection in the stool sample or blood. But getting blood is really tough for me, I've had a horrible fear of needles since I was in 1st grade...another guy prank'd me and tripped me from behind, I fell on my front tooth and had to go to the oral surgeon...I won't go into that but suffice to say I have come close to fainting just seeing a needle, even when my son was young, I almost fainted at the lab when they were taking his blood. That was over 30 years ago, and still don't like needles at all...even in the case of a tooth abscess, I'd rather put myself through pain than get a shot...my wife and kids sarcastically laugh at me...(it's ok for them to be sarcastic in this case...) but it's real for me.

Can't get a hold of Amp, seems their answer machine won't take answers and directs to email, but I haven't got a response yet...what can I say...bad week... Good news is my T5 is not ready anyway...trying to juggle a few different plates looking for work...

 

Ok, I haven't been around this thread for a bit, and the return on the input shaft back to Amp distributing was slower and such a bad experience I decided to buy the right input shaft elsewhere. Amp told me they couldn't apply the funds to the new input shaft, even if I was to send it back. They said I had to return it and repurchase. I didn't want to tie up money for 2 input shafts, and as it worked out that was smart. I knew it was my fault, but still, they were unwilling to work with me in any way to get the right part I needed.

I did in fact buy the one I linked to above, on Ebay. To be safe I ordered a set of the loose needle bearings as the ones I have are from the original '55 3-speed trans. Might as well do it right.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/121645645590




During all of this I walk out to a flat on the Passenger front. Have a set of Yokohama Avid tires coming. The salesperson at America's Tire said he could get Coker tires for the old trucks...For $#!T$ and giggles I asked how much they would cost...but damn, those look amazing but $300/each is not in my current budget. I have original baby moons that the previous seller gave me with the truck so plan to clean those up and use them. Would love the white walls, but the 3100s did have blackwall bias ply tires on them (7.50R16) and ~1/3rd the cost for the Yokohamas. 65,000 mile warranty.



I am not sure if I can start getting the T5 back together or not tomorrow/today but tires should be here in about a week, so it would be nice to drive it over and have them change the tires, but in the worst case I can put it on jack stands and take the wheels to them. Cordless impact makes this type of job a breeze.