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1930s Era Champ Car - new project

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER, Nov 20, 2007.

?

Another question: Posi or non-posi?

Poll closed Aug 18, 2021.
  1. Posi for two-wheel traction

    100.0%
  2. No Posi for better handling in the corners.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Shadow Creek
    Joined: May 14, 2014
    Posts: 301

    Shadow Creek
    Member

    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/the-road-less-traveled.1255185/

    Is the video you’re talking about? It’s definitely worth the watch
     
    loudbang likes this.
  2. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,416

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    That's it!
    Isn't that the coolest winter sport?
    Should be an Olympic event.
    If you're looking for a pick-me-up from the winter doldrums watch this.
    Pretty gutsy driving job especially if that is a real Bugatti. Its better than sitting in a stinkin' museum.

     
  3. 64 DODGE 440
    Joined: Sep 2, 2006
    Posts: 4,422

    64 DODGE 440
    Member
    from so cal

    Awesome video!
     
    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER likes this.
  4. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,416

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Yup.
    In the last still shot of 1921 / 2021 I see the license plate is the same number, so maybe it is the real deal. I wonder if those photos were taken on the same bend in the road?
    Anyhow, I promised myself to shoot a similar video when I get mine rolling.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2022
    loudbang likes this.
  5. dirt car
    Joined: Jun 26, 2010
    Posts: 1,065

    dirt car
    Member
    from nebraska

    Many of us have no doubt cut a donut or spun a brodie as it were called, a novel way to emulate the experience of high-speed sashaying & cornering without the risk to man & machine...
     
    loudbang likes this.
  6. banginona40
    Joined: Mar 5, 2007
    Posts: 773

    banginona40
    Member

    All so creative. Really dig it!
     
  7. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,416

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I never heard that phrase before. Do you know the origin of it? Maybe "brodie" is slang for broadslide?
    I learned something today.
     
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  8. dirt car
    Joined: Jun 26, 2010
    Posts: 1,065

    dirt car
    Member
    from nebraska

    Not sure where the brodie term originated or if spelled correctly, was commonly referred to letting it all hang out while accelerating in circles, ala NASCAR victory burn out.... may well be a midwestern thing...anyone else heard the word ? Probably only defined in the slang dictionary or what they refer to now days as the urban dictionary.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  9. 64 DODGE 440
    Joined: Sep 2, 2006
    Posts: 4,422

    64 DODGE 440
    Member
    from so cal

    HJmaniac and loudbang like this.
  10. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,416

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    cool
    #4 sounds like assassin avoidance maneuvers as seen in James Bond movies.

    At some point in my life I've tried all four, unknowingly.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  11. 64 DODGE 440
    Joined: Sep 2, 2006
    Posts: 4,422

    64 DODGE 440
    Member
    from so cal

    I'll admit. A "parking brake turn" saved my ass in my younger days.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  12. Dave G in Gansevoort
    Joined: Mar 28, 2019
    Posts: 2,665

    Dave G in Gansevoort
    Member
    from Upstate NY

    Gotta say, someone using a classic that way is impressive!
     
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  13. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,416

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I liked it when he used the rear brake to kick the rear end out to throw it into a turn. All museum pieces should be required to do similar demos from time to time.
    I'd kill for a set of those wheels.
     
    loudbang and 64 DODGE 440 like this.
  14. Dave G in Gansevoort
    Joined: Mar 28, 2019
    Posts: 2,665

    Dave G in Gansevoort
    Member
    from Upstate NY

    You know, I bet it wouldn't take too much to make something similar. A waterjet cutter and accurate dimensions, and some appropriately sized rims...
     
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  15. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,416

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    If you freeze the video at the :50 second point where he locks up the rears you get a good shot of them; from there I searched out google images of them.
    They appear to have bead-lock rims, eight curved spokes, and covers for the massive drum brakes. The Bug in the video has some kind of 4-bolt spinner hub. I don't think I could build some without help. I'm ordering Dayton wires as soon as the chassis is a roller.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    loudbang likes this.
  16. The wheels and brake drums are one piece.
    Just to make them harder to reproduce.
    A quirk of early Bugattis.
     
    Carter likes this.
  17. SR100
    Joined: Nov 26, 2013
    Posts: 1,131

    SR100
    Member

    Although it did make them harder to copy, Bugatti did have a reason. When he debuted them on the original t35 racer, the spokes were 'handed' to direct cooling air onto the drum. I'm not sure if any other than the gran prix cars were handed, though. I suspect that the sports car versions weren't, simply because not all of the cars carried two spares during longer races such as the Targa Florio. The 35A, the street version, were not. If I recall correctly, the Bugatti Club in the UK reproduced them. The repros are not handed.
    Ettore Bugatti did everything for a reason. Many of his reasons were unconventional and occasionally counterproductive. Some of his theories are rather obscure to people used to conventional engineering. Just part of what still makes the cars fascinating after 90+ years.
     
    Carter likes this.
  18. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,416

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    After the long winter hiatus I rolled the beast outside to assess where do I go from here. My "To Do" list is very long. Looking at that list I realized it was about this point in the build of Dad's TQ midget that it got sold. Sixty years ago.
    I will not let that happen - it will get completed.

    sr026.JPG
    sr_102.JPG sr_103.JPG sr_104.JPG
     
  19. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,416

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    To reduce the possibility of bump steer and drag link harmonics I am going to split the drag link and make it two-piece. Initially I thought of putting a pivot boss through the frame but looking more closely it seems if I put the boss through the rear hairpin mounting boss below the frame rail it could be longer (better) and closer to the hairpin pivot. It was just happenstance that by initially using a hunk of 2 x 3 tubing for the mount that there is now enough space to do that.

    Another advantage to this piece is that the steering ratio can be easily sped up or slowed down by adding multiple Heim end mounting holes.

    One aspect of the task that I need to resolve is what to use for the pivot bearing. I'm thinking a welded in sleeve reamed to accept an Oilite bushing, or a bronze bushing with a Zerk fitting on the backside for lube.
    Any other suggestions? Or is there a readily available bearing that will fit in the small space available?
    Steering 01.JPG Steering 02.JPG Steering 03.JPG
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2022
    282doorUK likes this.
  20. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,416

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Another needed feature is shock absorbers. I think I'll try to make my own friction lever arm shocks for the front. I torched out some star adjusters. I'll need arms, friction discs, and shoulder bolts.

    Front Shock 01.JPG
     
    Barrelnose pickup likes this.
  21. nickleone
    Joined: Jun 14, 2007
    Posts: 465

    nickleone
    Member

  22. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,416

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

  23. Here is an idea.
    Cut a hole through both walls of the chassis tube to x dia. Cut a piece of tubing to the length that is the same as the width of the chassis tube. Machine the I.D. of the ends of tube for a press fit of the following bearing or something similar.
    RBC Heim Rod End Bearing - Series COM, 2 Piece - Metal to Metal On Roller Bearing Company Inc. (rbcbearings.com)
    Chamfer O.D. of tube, weld in frame rail on both ends and grind flush.
    Maintenance free option
    DuraLube™ II Maintenance-Free Spherical Plain Bearings On Roller Bearing Company Inc. (rbcbearings.com)
    FK Rod Ends HIN8T FK HIN-T Series Rod End Receiver Bearings | Summit Racing
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2022
  24. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,416

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    FRONT PANHARD BAR:
    I need a front Panhard Bar to keep the front axle stable. Somewhere in a long-forgotten hot rod parts catalog I saw this mounting bracket, so I copied the design and torched out a couple. I decided it would fit this car and take up little room. It wasn't until I gave it a closer look that the genius of the part became apparent. By attaching the Panhard bar to the curved piece I was able to see that if that tire hit a bump the spring deflection would flatten and extend the end. That would twist the shackle which in turn would rotate the end of the Panhard Bar downward, to counteract the upward moving axle, thereby keeping the Panhard bar horizontal and eliminating any bump steer from the Bar moving in an arc.
    Clever

    I made the rod end bungs from 7/16-NF mag wheel lug nuts.

    Front Steering06.JPG Front Steering07.JPG Front Steering08.JPG Front Steering09.JPG
     
    Shadow Creek likes this.
  25. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 3,402

    GearheadsQCE
    Alliance Vendor

    Sorta the same principle as a CalTrac traction bar, no?
     
  26. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,416

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Yes, I guess it is a similar principal.
    In future builds, like my Attic Anglia, I may see if I can apply it to the rear, where I installed a more conventional Panhard bar. It would require reworking the mount on the center section. But practically speaking it is probably sufficient as-is for a rear stabilizer.
     

    Attached Files:

  27. Dave G in Gansevoort
    Joined: Mar 28, 2019
    Posts: 2,665

    Dave G in Gansevoort
    Member
    from Upstate NY

    Nice! When we made an arm for the dirt cars way back when, we used oilite bushings, and they worked just fine. Easy to make the support tube, and simple, hardly any maintenance. I just kept them clean, and a light wipe of oil when reassembling. And another consideration, they support the load better, and there's no point contact with bushings.
     
  28. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,416

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    So I looked through my junk drawers and found some bits that I used to make up the bearing boss for the steering idler arm. A piece of 1.25" OD .120" wall for the shell, a couple of Oilite bushings that I reamed out to .625" ID and a grade 8 5/8"-NF bolt that I turned the head down and gun drilled for a Zerk grease fitting.
    I love Zerk fittings. I will probably never need to grease the shaft once installed but the next caretaker of this machine may want to someday so why not make it easy for him/her?
    I will wait to press in the bushings until the final welding is complete, when I will size the bushings for the final bore ID. In the mean time I'll just turn a temporary bushing from wood or plastic so I can size up the steering arm Heim holes. My plan is to put an offset bend in the arm just to keep the two sections of the drag ling in alignment, then drill it full of pretty lightening holes after the offset bends are made.

    Just for grins I made up a windshield pattern before calling it quits for the night.

    Steering 04.JPG Steering 05.JPG Steering 06.JPG windshield 01.JPG
     
    Tim_with_a_T and Mike Lawless like this.
  29. I guess I misunderstood, I thought the pivot was in the frame rail.
     
  30. Mike Lawless
    Joined: Sep 20, 2021
    Posts: 516

    Mike Lawless

    I've never really looked at cowl steer cars much. That seems like a solid solution to a common problem. Good thinkin'!
    And for the limited movement, the bushing arrangement would work out great in my mind.
    If you wanted to be really tricky, your shock arrangement might be able to be employed here as a steering stabilizer.
     

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