Can anyone tell me if an ORIGINAL Ford chassis number starting with * 4867---* would be for a 1939 chassis, and what body type possibly?
That I can’t help with. But if you go to van pelts site, up on the top of the page to the right side “serial numbers” is a link to click on. Good luck.
He also shows locations on the frame and examples of different years stamps used. Might be a good idea to look at it.
In the interests of getting terminology right: they are not VIN numbers or a VIN. They are chassis numbers.
The prefix of 18 (or 81 sometimes) is found on the trans pad to designate the different models. There was std, dlx and 60hp designations. You'd think owning one I'd be an expert but not something that matters for where I'm going with the build. My chassis matches the title so job done for me. It was a 60 so there's that Correction, the 18 and 81 gig is for parts/model designations. 922A and 91 A were Ford, 99 A was Merc and 96H was Lincoln. the 18 was still on the trans pad near the motor. Carry on...
The number stamped by the cowl will always have the 18. The ones stamped in the middle of the frame as well as on the kickup sometimes do and sometimes don't have an 18....I think those depended on the operator doing the stamping.
Well, call them what you want to but I can tell you that the State of Washington as well as most other States definately considers those numbers to be V.I.N. numbers.
While DoL employees might speak of serial numbers as VINs, VIN has a definition in federal law and states have to follow it. From the WA DoL Dealer Manual: "Enter the vehicle identification number (VIN) or serial number exactly as it appears on the supporting documents." Remember we are talking about only pre-1954 cars. Everything from 1954 on has a VIN. Recent hires may go their entire career without registering a pre-1954 vehicle.
I am supplying this info first hand as I was directly involved in compiling some of it. A very close friend of mine that is a Washington State Patrol Trooper was one of the top vehicle inspectors for the State of Washington before he retired. He is also an avid Hot Rodder and was instrumental in writing the vehicle inspection code regarding pre 70's vehicles in Washington State. I helped many times in supplying information as to the locations and structure of the Vehicle Identification Numbers. The numbers that you are calling serial numbers are also considered to be the vehicles legal V.I.N. number in Washington as well as most other States.
Vehicles that had the 85 HP engine will have the 18- prefix. Vehicles that had the 60 HP engine will have a 54- prefix. Trucks with a granny gear 4 speed will have a BB18- prefix (or BB-54--they did put the little 60 in trucks up to 1 ton, if you can image a truck that underpowered). There is no indication of the body type in the serial number. King Henry V8 assigned the serial number to the engine/trans unit. That number is stamped on the bell of the original trans just above the clutch inspection window. When the engine/trans unit was bolted into a chassis, they had a guy with a hammer and a set of number stamps who copied the number off the bell of the trans onto the frame. If the number on the bell doesn't match what is on the frame, the trans has been replaced with one from a different vehicle. There is nothing in an old Ford serial number to indicate the body type. Pickups were built on a passenger car frame up through '41 ('41 pickup used a '40 car frame). The engines and transmissions were all built at the River Rouge plant and shipped out to the different assembly plants around the country. The number range will tell you what month the engine and trans unit was built but not when it was bolted into a frame (an engine/trans built in February might have been installed in a frame in April). Ford had a major fire at the Rotunda in the late '60s if I remember right. Many records were lost, including the records of which serial numbers went to which assembly plants and whether a particular number engine/trans went into a Deluxe or Standard coupe, sedan, convertible, pickup, or panel truck. The serial number of the '38 Ford pickup that I recently sold (after owning since 1966) was 18-4461076. I have the original trans case that came out of it--the number on the bell of the trans matches the number on the frame, so it had the original trans when I got it. Based on that number, the original engine/trans was made in February 1938, close to the time that Ford went from the 21 stud engine to the 24 stud. There is no way to tell if the engine is original unless it has a rebuilder tag on it. King Henry V8 discouraged dealership shops from doing engine overhaul work and instead encouraged engine exchange with engine exchange from a Ford authorized rebuilder. The serial number was not stamped on the engine.
2nd that. The debate over VIN/Serial numbers never goes away and always comes up sooner or latter in every VIN thread. Everyone knows whats being refereed to. Its just like the Freeze Plug/ Welch Plug/Core Plug and Engine/Motor debate. My 32 Ford title has the Serial number in the Vehicle Identification Number box on my title. Maybe I should demand a title that has a Serial Number Box on it, instead of a Vehicle Identification Box. They would laugh me out of the DMV. Bill
Except that it's not. With a serial number or a VIN, in either case, they are the identity mark on the car. If you are expecting a core/welch plug to function as a freeze plug, you are likely to be in for an expensive surprise!
You might have better luck with this link: http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/flathead_home.htm Use this link to go directly to the information you want: http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/flathead_serialnumbers.htm Charlie Stephens
It’d be interesting if someone had an original title from the “pre-VIN” days to see what the numbers are referred to. Regardless of what to call the number, it’s still a ‘39 frame
I have a 52 Ford truck that has been in the family since new. It still has the original first issue Illinois title. It says serial number, not VIN. The title looks nothing like a more modern title, its smaller, kinda blackish photo static looking.
Unfortunately, I'm not an expert at all, and I don't even have such a rare car in the garage to figure it out. However, I dug around on the Internet and read your comments, indeed the VIN code on those cars began with the digits 18- or 58-, depending on the engine. In general, I think that modern VIN decoders like in this website will be able to determine everything with ease. Try to type in your VIN and see what information the site will give you. Come back to us with the updates.
Since each state issued it's own title for a new Ford, I'm guessing that they used the only number supplied with the vehicle as a serial number and or vin number according to their own standards. Ford didn't provide titles with their cars. Designations such as coupe, sedan, 4 door, two door, ect were all added when the vehicle was titled in each state. Each state has it's own proceedure. VINs were first used in 1954 in the United States.[2] From 1954 to 1981, there was no accepted standard for these numbers, so different manufacturers used different formats. In 1981, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration of the United States standardized the format.[2] It required all on-road vehicles sold to contain a 17-character VIN, which does not include the letters O (o), I (i), and Q (q) (to avoid confusion with numerals 0, 1, and 9).
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