Register now to get rid of these ads!

Technical Drum brake problem Wilson welding plates/speedway drum SOLVED!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 4SpeedGuy, Mar 2, 2022.

  1. 4SpeedGuy
    Joined: Jan 19, 2011
    Posts: 43

    4SpeedGuy
    Member
    from Lubbock Tx

    Here was the wear pattern on the drum I replaced. It was toast, egg shaped and heavily worn. Also here are 3 of the shoes, the 4th is in my truck. Please tell me what you see....
     

    Attached Files:

  2. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 20,404

    alchemy
    Member

    When you assembled the new drum to the hub, it fit on with no clearance problems, right? Nice and tight, but no wiggle. Then you had the new assembly turned to assure, concentricity, right? And never removed the hub again.

    I remember reading a thread either here or on the Ford Barn about a fella having the shoes "walk" away from the backing plate when pressure is applied. The drum was not turned exactly perpendicular to the spindle centerline. That's why I thought you might have a similar problem.
     
  3. Jmountainjr
    Joined: Dec 29, 2006
    Posts: 1,672

    Jmountainjr
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The Buick drum that you removed is significantly worn beyond service limit which is 12.060". They are 12.00" new. The round dots are the bonding lugs that retain the cast liner in the aluminum drum. They do not come near showing when the drum is within normal limits. They tore up the lining.
     
    Max Gearhead and Hnstray like this.
  4. If your brake guy didn’t put a non directional finish on the drums it can cause the shoes to “walk” on the drum.
     
    '28phonebooth and Jeff Norwell like this.
  5. 4SpeedGuy
    Joined: Jan 19, 2011
    Posts: 43

    4SpeedGuy
    Member
    from Lubbock Tx

    The hub fits nice. I DID remove it after it was turned as a unit. I'll assemble it and take it back. I originally took it in as a unit because I was thinking along those same lines.
     
  6. 4SpeedGuy
    Joined: Jan 19, 2011
    Posts: 43

    4SpeedGuy
    Member
    from Lubbock Tx

    I had my guy put the bonded shoes on hi arc-ing machine.
    I'm going to switch to riveted shoes anyway.
     
  7. 4SpeedGuy
    Joined: Jan 19, 2011
    Posts: 43

    4SpeedGuy
    Member
    from Lubbock Tx

    yes sir. this whole braking system was a train wreck.
     
  8. 4SpeedGuy
    Joined: Jan 19, 2011
    Posts: 43

    4SpeedGuy
    Member
    from Lubbock Tx

    Art, The brake guy is very experienced. I tell you this because the drums are not being machined by some kid that works at an auto parts chain store. The surface was smooth (not polished) when I got the drums back. The original drum I re used was turned the same way as the new one.
    Can you tell me about how a "non directional" finish would be achieved?
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2022
  9. By running a piece of sand paper in and out over the braking surface while the drum is turning on the brake lathe. It’s always the last step in turning a drum or rotor. Besides cleaning
     
  10. 4SpeedGuy
    Joined: Jan 19, 2011
    Posts: 43

    4SpeedGuy
    Member
    from Lubbock Tx

    Thanks for all the replies so far.
    I'm thinking this is several small , usually no big deal problems, ganging up on me.
    Today, I'm going to:
    Check to make sure the bearing races match on both sides.

    Mock up drum with Play-doh to verify I have the clearance I think I do

    Assemble hub on drum( and take it back to My brake guy and make sure it's machined perpendicular to the spindle line.
    Get some higher quality (riveted?) shoes and have the brake guy Arc them.
    In the mean time, keep the ideas coming!
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2022
    stillrunners likes this.
  11. 4SpeedGuy
    Joined: Jan 19, 2011
    Posts: 43

    4SpeedGuy
    Member
    from Lubbock Tx

    Thank you. I'll check with Art and make sure that's how he finishes them.
     
  12. Anytime anything is turned on a lathe, threads are created by the cutter being fed across the part, this can cause the shoes to try to thread themselves along the drum, by putting a non directional finish on them it breaks up the thread.

    The finish or “scratches” on the drum should almost look like overlapping mountains.
     
  13. Jmountainjr
    Joined: Dec 29, 2006
    Posts: 1,672

    Jmountainjr
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    As I understand it's the Speedway drum that is giving the trouble. I see on their product description that their drum is designed to work with the hub inside the drum. Use to be done both ways depending on hub used.. Your picture showes an outside hub, but you said that you made some sort of modification to the drum. Was the mod related to the hub location?
     
  14. 4SpeedGuy
    Joined: Jan 19, 2011
    Posts: 43

    4SpeedGuy
    Member
    from Lubbock Tx

    I was matching it to the old setup. The center hole in the speedway drum was too big for the front of my hub anyway. The fitment modification was to clean up the inside hole so it fit the back side of my hub, drill the new lug pattern and remove material off the back side of the drum liner and surrounding aluminum so make it clear the Wilson backing plates.
     
  15. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 20,404

    alchemy
    Member

    Original Buick drums were commonly used with 48 Ford hubs, which is what the truck originally had. The repro Speedway Buick drums are meant to slide over the outside of 40 Ford hubs (different offset). I'm not positive, but I think Speedway made their drum to look like the original Buicks, but not dimensionally the same. You have used the new drum in a way not meant by Speedway, so maybe their intended offset won't fit the 48 hub.

    Measure the offset of the new drum to the old drum on the inside.

    Also, make sure the backing plate is seating correctly on the spindle. Maybe there is a burr that cocks it to the side?




    .
     
    SS327, Andy and Hnstray like this.
  16. 4SpeedGuy
    Joined: Jan 19, 2011
    Posts: 43

    4SpeedGuy
    Member
    from Lubbock Tx

    Yes sir, I did account for that. Every measurement I took indicated the modified drum should fit as the old one did.
    Yes, I did check the fitment of the backing plates.
    I have read that guys are using the speedway drums with Wilson plates, but they did not specify the modification.
     
  17. Nobody mentioned calling @Bass, Brian bought the Business from Bob Wilson. With his experience he may have run across this in the past and can offer some advice.
     
    stillrunners likes this.
  18. 4SpeedGuy
    Joined: Jan 19, 2011
    Posts: 43

    4SpeedGuy
    Member
    from Lubbock Tx

    I spoke with him briefly this morning. I asked him about the shoe part number to make sure I had the correct ones. Gave him a quick explanation of the problem, and he said the cheaper shoes may be contributing to the issue. He recommended Wagner Z340.
     
    stillrunners, Max Gearhead and Tman like this.
  19. gary macdonald
    Joined: Jan 18, 2021
    Posts: 308

    gary macdonald
    Member

    Are there raised pads on the backing plates that contact the shoes ? Are your wheel cyl push rods coming out of the cyl on an angle? Is it possible the pads or contact surface is too tall , therefore placing the shoes out further ?
     
  20. 4SpeedGuy
    Joined: Jan 19, 2011
    Posts: 43

    4SpeedGuy
    Member
    from Lubbock Tx

    Thanks for all the replies.
    WE GOT BRAKES!!!
    Besides re checking lots of stuff, I believe the culprit was the bonded shoes.
    Today I installed the hub on the drum, and took it back to the brake guy and had him check it on the lathe. My wife picked it up, so I don't know how much it took to clean it up.
    I took the shoes that were on the truck when it came in and had them re lined. Installed the riveted shoes and turned drum and presto! No more rubbing and great brakes.
    FYI........ anyone wanting to use the Speedway drum on Wilson welding backing plates your gonna have to cut a BUNCH off the drum ring and surrounding aluminum and possibly shim the wheel bearing to get it to clear.
     
  21. Thanks for the detailed info.
    While you figured out this conundrum that involved precise measuring and machine work I learned my electric choke conversion wasn’t working cause I left the gasket from the hot air choke. :)
     
  22. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 9,174

    manyolcars

    Brake problems come up so frequently that brakes deserve their own sub forum
     
  23. 4SpeedGuy
    Joined: Jan 19, 2011
    Posts: 43

    4SpeedGuy
    Member
    from Lubbock Tx

    Brother, you are talking to the guy who dropped a motor in , buttoned up the converter and trans, went to get a wrench from my workbench and saw the 1 piece rear main seal hanging on the pegboard............
    We all have flashes of greatness tempered by humbling experiences,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
     
  24. Jmountainjr
    Joined: Dec 29, 2006
    Posts: 1,672

    Jmountainjr
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Thanks for letting us know how it worked out. I suspect that the amount that you needed to remove from the Speedway drum for the setup you are working on is due to the hub being on the outside of the drum. I like the Buick brake setup and have done several in varying configurations. I have to say that I wasn't initially enthused when Speedway introduced their version of a Buick style drum. However with serviceable originals becoming almost non-existent and with all of the machine work they eliminated for the average guy I have a developing appreciation of why they went the route they did.
     
  25. denis4x4
    Joined: Apr 23, 2005
    Posts: 4,198

    denis4x4
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Colorado

    E8115C38-53F4-4AF0-AC36-C7462CA3F67B.jpeg

    Hollywood Accessories made a backing plate cover to match the Buick drums.
     
    Guy Patterson and Jalopy Joker like this.
  26. Jalopy Joker
    Joined: Sep 3, 2006
    Posts: 31,174

    Jalopy Joker
    Member

    great detective story
     
    stillrunners likes this.

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.