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Hot Rods 392 hemi overheating

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by babblewon, Jan 19, 2022.

  1. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 7,175

    73RR
    Member

    The bean counters were solely responsible for the cuts. Those guys get pretty worked up over a nickel or two so the added costs of the big head castings and the double rocker assemblies made them crazy.
     
  2. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 6,825

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    Sounds to me like the previous thermostat was contributing to the head scratching somewhat. Lippy
     
    Pist-n-Broke likes this.
  3. junkman8888
    Joined: Jan 28, 2009
    Posts: 1,035

    junkman8888
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    73RR, in Detroit cost are tracked to a tenth of a penny, the Poly motor was simply cheaper to produce than the Hemi.
     
  4. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,264

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    They were then. Now it is to the hundredth.

    As it was then, so it is now, the only way to make money in the automotive industry is sales volume.
     
  5. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,723

    George
    Member

    A comment atributed to Don Garlitz said they were dropped because the B engines saved $35, and over 100s of thousands of engines that adds up.
     
    gimpyshotrods likes this.
  6. Jim 392
    Joined: Apr 10, 2021
    Posts: 30

    Jim 392

    I would like to see the cost sheet for a Max - Wedge versus a 392 . Either way they could have kept the engine as an option for high - end products .

    Garlits replied to an email that I sent to him and he stated that it was discovered years after that 1 higher up at Chrysler made a bunch of money under the table for the engine change. He didn't go into any further detail.
     
  7. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,264

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    No, they could not have. That would have required not only an expensive extra degree of complexity in the assembly line, but a service parts stream for warranty and wear support. These are guaranteed expenses, without a guarantee of a single sale.

    All of those things add up to extremely large expenses. In 2022 numbers, we're talking tens-of-millions. No automaker in their right mind would spend that on the outside chance that someone wants an esoteric engine.

    If you look at modern vehicles, in many cases you get to pick color and wheels. All of the hard parts for the model are the same, and are also shared across several platforms.
     
    Baumi likes this.
  8. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,723

    George
    Member

    1957: Chrysler was making high deck 392s, low deck 354 hemis & polys for trucks, marine & Ind., DeSoto Hemis, Dodge hemis, & Dodge Polys for Dodge & DeSoto, plus Plymouth "A" Polys in 277, 301, and 318....going to just A & B engines must have been a relief.
     
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  9. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,213

    sunbeam
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  10. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 7,175

    73RR
    Member

    I was trying to be generous....
     
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  11. junkman8888
    Joined: Jan 28, 2009
    Posts: 1,035

    junkman8888
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    gimpyshotrods; you mentioned that now automaker would spend tens of millions on the outside chance that someone would want an "esoteric" engine. Apparently you've forgotten about all those Hemi powered Mopars in the '70's, or Cosworth Vegas (the four-cam engine basically doubled the price of the car), or SVO Mustangs (or Turbo Birds for that matter), or LT5 Corvettes (four-cam engines assembled by, of all people, Mercury Marine)...
     
  12. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,264

    gimpyshotrods
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    Ever single second-generation Hemi was a guaranteed sale, and sold.

    The Cosworth Vega was a gamble GM lost, but so was much of what they did in the 1970's. They weren't in their right mind.

    Every SVO Mustang and Thunderbird Turbo Coupe sold. That wasn't an esoteric engine, either. Remember where it came from?

    Every LT5 Corvette sold, and at a profit.

    Chrysler looked at their actual balance sheets and determined that the current sales did not justify the gamble.
     
  13. alanp561
    Joined: Oct 1, 2017
    Posts: 4,610

    alanp561
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    True that. Just look at the early Mustangs and Cougars. Then take a close look at all the parts from the Falcons that fit on those cars.
     
  14. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,264

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    And vice-versa. My Falcon is full of Mustang parts.
     
  15. PotvinV8
    Joined: Mar 30, 2009
    Posts: 408

    PotvinV8
    Member

    It always makes me laugh to think of all the penny pinching that went on and yet they still developed three separate engines of the same design (Desoto, Chrysler, Dodge). Wouldn't ONE Hemi design for the three marques make more fiscal sense?! It's almost as if it were a governmental entity. :D
     
  16. Truckedup
    Joined: Jul 25, 2006
    Posts: 4,661

    Truckedup
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    For Mopar the bottom line could be did the Hemi offer any advantage in performance or reliability in a production car compared to the B wedge?
     
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  17. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,723

    George
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    not to mention the truck & marine versions, with the differences in each, of the Dodge & Chr, plus the Ind versions of all 3.
     
  18. Jim 392
    Joined: Apr 10, 2021
    Posts: 30

    Jim 392

    With both engine designs running 90 plus octane gasoline the wedge engines probably ran just as well in a day to day car. That worked out great until they wanted to race again AFTER the sh @T - canned the tools , drawings , and everything. They saved 35 bucks making the 413 and spent 35000 on manifolds ( still fell on it's face at the races ).

    The decision had to come somewhere around 1955 to be producing some wedge engines for the 57 model year. Those minor little ' design improvements " that we see between 1954 and 1955 engines must not have been enough to change the minds of the right people.
     
  19. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,264

    gimpyshotrods
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    Which is exactly why they stopped.
     
  20. Jim 392
    Joined: Apr 10, 2021
    Posts: 30

    Jim 392

    Either way they were moving on the excesses of post WW2 economics. They still could have selected one series of hemi engine to produce for all 3 brands and solved the majority of the financial cost woes. The gasoline quality is what motivated the move away from the hemi ( better gas allows the lesser designs to creep in ). But to scrap the whole entire engine series the way it was done .... sudden and thorough even the damn drawings is just absurd. They could have kept a small plant just for Chris Craft ( boats ) , trucks , performance. They bet it all on the 413 and lost.

    The 392 would get the last laugh at the dragstrip. It would go on to make the papers for at least the next decade ( probably longer than the professional careers of the guys that pulled the plug on it ). Dude in charge of racing R and D reporting to the execs on Monday morning giving them the bad news in 1962 ( and the execs have a newspaper on the table showing " Chrysler Firepower " valve covers on Sunday's fuel winners ).
     
    MRW1994 likes this.
  21. This has gotten so far off base I'm going to stop following it. Sure hope babblewan got his heat issue cured. I'm gone
     
  22. babblewon
    Joined: Aug 19, 2007
    Posts: 202

    babblewon
    Member
    from cali

    Haha
    I think I’m on the right track now. Drove it the last couple days. No overheating, no coolant puking. Worked out the temp gauge issue and she stays around 140 while driving. Started getting into 190’s while idling for extended periods. I only had a puller electric fan and I think I’m on the small side for a radiator. Not have the funds for a high efficiency radiator, I built a fan shroud and added a clutch fan I had laying around. Moved the electric fan to the front with a 185 temp sender. Idled for a good 30-40 minutes and fan still didn’t come on.
    Now I can move on to working out all the little things that go along with a new build.

    Thanks to everyone for their help, input and knowledge!
     
  23. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,264

    gimpyshotrods
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    I would verify the accuracy of your gauge. Running around 140º is too low to support complete combustion.

    If you don't have the thermostat in, put it back in.

    Complete combustion should be around 190º-205º, give-or-take.
     
    Desoto291Hemi likes this.
  24. babblewon
    Joined: Aug 19, 2007
    Posts: 202

    babblewon
    Member
    from cali


    Called classic instruments today, I have the 40 ford gauge set from them. The temp gauge is not linear and the hash marks are not all marked. Found what I thought was 140 is more like 180. I have a 180 t-stat in.
     
    milwscruffy likes this.
  25. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,264

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Ok, that's better!
     
    babblewon and Pist-n-Broke like this.

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