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Technical 1934 Ford Fabric Roof Insert

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by rockable, Jan 18, 2022.

  1. rockable
    Joined: Dec 21, 2009
    Posts: 4,428

    rockable
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Ok, so I'm iced in and bored today. I'm also at a standstill with my Buick, so I thought I'd do a little planning for my upcoming 34 Ford Tudor build. One of the areas that I was noodling on is the roof insert. I don't care for and don't want a metal roof insert, so please don't suggest that.

    When I bought my car, I received a bunch of parts and one large, mysterious flat box. When I got it home and opened it, I realized it was a set of "rarer than hen's teeth" tack strips for the fabric roof. So, I'm definitely not going to put a Juliano's top on it and am going to try to do a really good fabric insert.

    From what I have gathered via friends and internet, the best route seems to be to use a sheet of thin luan plywood instead of chicken wire. This prevents ballooning. From what I've gathered, you cut the luan to the shape of the opening, protect it with some varnish or paint and glue and screw it to the bows. I'm not sure whether you should use 1/8" or 1/4" and it may be possible to ship the bows downward to keep the top from being elevated.

    Next, you glue some thin 1/4" foam to the plywood (I think that padded headliner material would work well for this.) Then, you stretch the fabric over the foam and staple it to a tacking strip in the gutter of the roof. (I assume you would use the flexible plastic style tacking strip for this but don't know. I also don't know how best to attach this tacking strip. It has to be secure and I assume sealed with rtv, urethane or something.)

    After that, you have to nail or screw the tack strip through the fabric/foam/tacking strip. Once that's installed, you have a rubber insert that goes into the channel of the tack strip. That is the extent of my knowledge at this point.

    I would love a little more detail from people who have actually done this, along with what to do and what not to do. Pictures would be great. I did a bunch of searches but never did come up with a thread that actually showed you how to do this. I saw some pictures posted by @33Doll and @51farmtruck that looked helpful but I need more. I'm piecing the process together one bit at a time, it seems. Hopefully, this can be a resource for others in the future.

    Thanks for your help.
     
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  2. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 9,814

    BJR
    Member

    When I had a 34 Ford 4dr in 1968 I put a blue plexiglass roof insert in it.:eek::D
     
  3. Here is how we did the last one. We drilled out the rivets and removed the original tack strip. The fiber material was bad; but the tin that enclosed it was good. We cleaned out the remains of the fiber material and had the tin blasted and powder coated. We slid new plastic tack strip into the tin with a little silicone. When it was set we fitted it to the roof using 3/16" clecos and drilled some more holes for rivets. We then removed the tack strip, masked the roof well, bedded the tack strip in silicone, hooked it down with the clecos and pop-riveted down removing clecos as we proceeded. Urethane would work here too, maybe better? don't know. My friend's buddy added the fabric. He used billboard membrane instead of chicken wire along with landau foam. We had the original metal strips powder coated and along with tacking them down we added a few long 4-40 machine screws at the ends and a couple stubborn spots around the curves. Ran a thin bead of drip check in the groove and pressed in the rubber strip. Probably other ways to go about this. On my other '33s; one had good chicken wire so I left it and used canvas for the base with cotton batting on top; the other I used thin aluminum and foam. If you use wood or metal the front corners are a little convex and need attention to get it laying right.
     
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  4. rockable
    Joined: Dec 21, 2009
    Posts: 4,428

    rockable
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    Thanks, Rich. I don't have the Tin that encapsulates the tacking strip. I'm guessing I wouldn't necessarily have to have it. Correct?
     
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  5. rockable
    Joined: Dec 21, 2009
    Posts: 4,428

    rockable
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    I don't think that's the look I will be shooting for, Brian! :D:p
     
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  6. chop&drop
    Joined: Oct 11, 2006
    Posts: 668

    chop&drop
    Member

    You’ve pretty much got the basics figured out. I used chicken wire then a good quality canvas. These I stapled down. Next came a thin foam layer which I believe I held in place with a small amount of spray adhesive. I used Haartz cloth for the topping. I stapled the Haartz cloth onto a stretcher made of 2x4’s that was bigger than the opening then laid it over the top. With the fabric in place I nailed down the fabric and trim together, then added the rubber insert. Worked great and didn’t balloon. This was on a ‘32 Ford Tudor. 51CC8FE9-5E33-49B1-A51D-3F2C200F23C8.jpeg
     
  7. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 9,814

    BJR
    Member

    In my defense I was 18 years old at the time.:p I found my old car at Back To The 50's 5 years ago. All done up with a SBC, Jag rear end, M II front, and still had a blue Plexiglass roof.
     
  8. Chop&drop just gave you some key info. You can't hand pull the fabric without having wrinkles. You need to build a wood frame large enough to not hit the Body with the fabric stappled to it. The weight and the fact it's hanging gives it an even stretch. Then you fasten the fabric in the trough and cut the extra off. Next install edge trim. Works best on a warm day out in the Sun.
     
  9. rockable
    Joined: Dec 21, 2009
    Posts: 4,428

    rockable
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yes, I had picked that up from the Juliano's site. GREAT TIP. I'm going to try to document the install with pictures when I get to the end....which will be a while but I thought we needed this on the HAMB.
     
  10. Something I have noticed on several very nice cars using Hartz Cloth. There is a very noticeable grain if you will, to the cloth due to the way it's made. Thread runs front to back as well as side to side. The fabric is sold off a bolt by the yard. Just because the piece of yardage is cut square don't mean the thread is square to the cut. You can easily have an off square center line of thread. Before tacking the material to the square stretch frame, you need to fold it length ways make a mark then open and lay it out then step back and look. You may need to move a mark up to 1/2" to get it to follow a single thread line so that when you're looking at the fabric installed it don't look like the fabric has slid to one corner under installation. Always work off a center line and make sure the center line is on center of the vehicle.
     
  11. rockable
    Joined: Dec 21, 2009
    Posts: 4,428

    rockable
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    How do you do that when you use that frame? The piece of cloth is larger than the opening.
     
  12. I believe the fabric comes 72" wide. I believe that's wider than the roof. Someone will probably have a correct number if I'm wrong.
     
  13. Correction,,, 60" wide
     
  14. Now I've not really looked at a 33/34 roof so this my not work. On my 36 tudor, I welded a top section from a 70s "GERMAN" OT bus into the opening, glued on 1/4" VINYL TOP foam and glued the long grain vinyl I bought from Lebarron Bonny directly onto that. Then edged it with the original rubber insert also ftom L-B. Ended up looking original but made it more solid and safer for my kids to ride in. I didnt cut any original body away to do this. I realize L-B is out of buisness but im sure ypu could source the original materials somewhere. Good luck. Mitch
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2022
  15. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 3,883

    rusty valley
    Member

    Not to be a smart ass, but VW busses bring as much as a 34 ford these days!
     
  16. Maybe so but near None of us rally care.
     
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  17. stanlow69
    Joined: Feb 21, 2010
    Posts: 7,348

    stanlow69
    Member Emeritus

    If you use the proper non stretchable vinyl, you can glue that directly to your 1/4 inch closed cell foam that is glued to the luan. It will not balloon up going down the road. Or create a ripple effect from air movement. No need to make a frame and try and stretch it on. Think of a vinyl top on a car. It`s glued don. Use a good glue (Weldwood vinyl top adhesive) and make sure it`s good and tacky. When using chicken wire, sometimes (or more often) you can see the outlines of the bows when completed. Don`t use 1/4 inch headliner foam. It will fall apart like all the headliners found in newer cars. The foam turns to dust.
     
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  18. Aint that the truth about those busses, I did this almost 20 years ago and it came from a bus a "DUFFUS",,,and I use that term politely,,,, was making into a shorty. No harm no foul...Mitch
     
  19. rockable
    Joined: Dec 21, 2009
    Posts: 4,428

    rockable
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    Where do you get 1/4" closed cell foam?
     
  20. rockable
    Joined: Dec 21, 2009
    Posts: 4,428

    rockable
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    How can you see where your centerline marks are if the frame extends beyond the roof edge?
     
  21. Sometimes Ya gotta get creative. White chalk or Tailer's marker and a stick pin with a center mark on the body, preferably on a piece of painter's tape. Not on the paint itself.
     
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  22. stanlow69
    Joined: Feb 21, 2010
    Posts: 7,348

    stanlow69
    Member Emeritus

    At an upholstery supply house or your local upholstery shop. The last time I checked, my supplier was out.
     
    rockable likes this.
  23. I got my 1/4" foam from a supply house in my town. DuBois - Lite Products was the name. They closed up shop but I believe they have an online, DLT corporation. It was a blue color and really dense/rigid.. Mitch
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2022
  24. I think this is current info. My brother who did Auto Upholstery for a living started buying from this Co back in the 60's. Pretty sure they do mail order.

    https://www.perfectfit.com/
     
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  25. rockable
    Joined: Dec 21, 2009
    Posts: 4,428

    rockable
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    loudbang likes this.
  26. While I haven't done it, the plastic tack strip should be able to hold the corners if formed with a heat gun was used.

    Another option would be cutting and milling some PVC trim boards to the corner shape. The stuff holds tacks well and can be cut to sizes that are unavailable. The only thing it is white; but it seems to take paint OK.
     
  27. rockable
    Joined: Dec 21, 2009
    Posts: 4,428

    rockable
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I found some 7/8" wide X 1/4" thick plastic tack strip and ordered it. I'm going to see it if can be shaped to the corners. It will also have rivets or screws holding it down, so it should work.
     
    loudbang likes this.

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