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Projects 1930 Buick Wood removal. V-12 Sedan Build

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Essex_29, Mar 9, 2021.

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  1. 2manycars2littletime
    Joined: Jul 1, 2009
    Posts: 98

    2manycars2littletime
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You're doing some excellent work!
    I'm following this thread...you're way ahead of my '33 Pontiac wood replacement project, so I hope to learn a lot from you!
     
    TFoch likes this.
  2. Essex_29
    Joined: Dec 27, 2007
    Posts: 145

    Essex_29
    Member
    from Finland

    Thank you @TFoch and @2manycars2littletime .
    Now that the visor was the right width, it was time to do some other work on it.
    buick098.jpg
    It was decided to angle the visor up by moving it out about 1-3/8"at the bottom most point.
    New side parts were fabricated, starting with bending over a 1/4" wide lip. This was done in the bead roller first, with a tipping die, and then by hammering. Here's the pair.
    buick099.jpg
    Here the new side part is cut and test fit to see if it will fit. Looks okay so far.
    buick0100.jpg
     
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  3. Essex_29
    Joined: Dec 27, 2007
    Posts: 145

    Essex_29
    Member
    from Finland

    I decided to continue the bead on the visor down the side a bit. Here te new part is pretty close to fitting.
    buick101.jpg
    The whole corner was too angular, so some cutting and hammering had to be done to soften the curve.
    After welding and grinding the other side was attacked, but the enthusiasm could have been better. Always two sides...
    buick102.jpg
    Yes, I'm better at grinding than welding. I was going to weld this with the tig, as I just got a new tank of argon, but it took too long, and when I dipped the tungsten I gave in and migged it.
    After grinding all the welds The visor was mounted to the body with a couple sheet metal screws, because I don't have any clecos.
    buick103.jpg
    I like the way it looks now, mounted higher than the original, and extending the whole width of the A-pillars.
    This is what the visor looks like on an original car:
    visor1.jpg

    The frame is at the sand blaster's now. Hopefully it's back by next weekend, so that I can work on it some on my christmas leave.
     
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  4. Essex_29
    Joined: Dec 27, 2007
    Posts: 145

    Essex_29
    Member
    from Finland

    It took a while to get back to working on the project, as always, it got a bit busy around christmas. So, by the way, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you all!

    I got to finish sanding the visor, inside an out, it's now ready for primer. I saw a pic of a 1929 Oldsmobile, they have a similar pike in the visor, that was fun to see.
    buick104.jpg

    When the frame came back from sandblasting, a friend of mine came over with an infrared camera, and marked the floor where it was safe to drill holes. I want to have the frame fixed to the floor, but as I have electric floor heating, I didn't think it was even possible. Here's a pic taken of the virefinder on the infrared camera. The frame and jackstands are yellow-greenish. You can still see the warmer red lines in the floor, those were much sharper earlier, when the heat had just been turned on.
    buick105.jpg
    So now, when anchors had been knocked into the holes in the concrete floor, I could bolt tubing to them, and start making the uprights that will be tacked to the frame to keep it straight while working on boxing, crossmembers and whatnot.
    buick106.jpg
    I made diagonals too, to make the whole thing sturdy. Nothing welded to the frame yet, as I will grind and hammer out a bunch of rivets from the underside first. All crossmembers will have to be removed, except maybe the one you can see here, in front of the rear axle. I had the sandblaster add a thin coat of primer to prevent the frame from rusting, but of course, I have to grind that off everywhere I need to weld.
    Luckily the frame is in great condition. Surprisingly it's square, and just a small part of the top flange on the left hand side is rusty..
     
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  5. Essex_29
    Joined: Dec 27, 2007
    Posts: 145

    Essex_29
    Member
    from Finland

    After a lot of thinking and planning, the frame was cut about 9" behind where the fire wall will be. The frame will be bent up a few degrees, to the effect of 2-1/2 inches at the front axle. The frame is cut/bent as far back as possible to make the bend less noticeable, and the result will make it possible to run a lower front end.
    buick108.jpg
    Kick ups are frowned upon at the MOT facility here. I don't really know if they are considered illegal, even, but in any case, visible kick ups are not good looking to me, so I try to make them stealthy. The rear kick up will be modified too, to provide three or four inches more space above the axle.
    buick109.jpg
    Here the frame is mocked up to the right height and width, it's also pinched 2" at the axle. The long bent up part of the frame makes it look like it's a long curve along the whole chassis.
    The rake of the rear of the chassis and the body will be about 3 degrees, and I'd like to make the driveline slope backward to get an aggressive raked look, a bit like the broken back look of a T-Tub with huge rear wheels.
     
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  6. Essex_29
    Joined: Dec 27, 2007
    Posts: 145

    Essex_29
    Member
    from Finland

    New Years came and went. And I had some time to spend in the garage. Some work, lots of planning.
    I designed a new kick up shape for the rear of the frame.
    buick112.jpg
    The upward travel will be almost 6 " from ride height. The kick up will consist
    of two pairs of these cut out of 1/8" sheet metal. Welded up with flanges, they will form a boxed structure. Plans call for an all boxed frame.
    After a few sketches, this is probably about what the K-member will look like.
    buick113.jpg
    The shape of the flanges was cut out of 3/32" thick plywood.
    buick114.jpg
    Four of these will be cut out, to make two mirrored parts for the K-member.
    The old crossmeber will have to be modified to give about 5" more clearance upward, and will be left as a part of the new K-member.
    The K-member will have to be reasonably sturdy to carry the forces of a triangulated four link. A Satchell link in this case, so the bottom pair will be triangulated, and the top links will go in the straight fore/aft direction.
     

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  7. Essex_29
    Joined: Dec 27, 2007
    Posts: 145

    Essex_29
    Member
    from Finland

    Most of the proper work went into the frame. And most of the work itself went into measuring.
    The frame was cut and bent up towards the front, as described earlier. This to get the Ford crossmember to fit on the proper height. As it sists now, with control arms trial fitted the bottom arms are horizontal, which should be about perfect.
    The frame is welded back together where it was bent, and the new crossmember welded in properly. I purchased a new welder a couple years ago, the old 150A MIG welder gave up and I got a new 250A Migatronic. Loads more oomph is great when welding structural stuff. Today I wouldn't really recommend buiding a frame with a 150Ampere MIG welder.
    buick111.jpg

    This would probably be a good time for a disclaimer. I would really like to run am I-beam front axle. I admit that I like to venture a bit outside the box, but I like rods to be reasonably traditional too. In this case I have no choice but to run this kind of front suspension, to be able to get this car street legal with this engine in this country (Finland). And so it all snowballed. The wheels and tires are wrong, the engine and transmission are wrong. But I think, if you squint, this car might end up looking reasonably fun anyway :)
    The whole car is wrong. Who builds rod from a wreck of a Buick? Who am I trying to fool? Myself mostly. But then I enjoy building this car and that's kind of the idea. I guess.
     
  8. Johnboy34
    Joined: Jul 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,588

    Johnboy34
    Member
    from Seattle,Wa

    Using what you got is how is how Hot Rods were built for many many years. I like the Buick, keep up the good work!
     
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  9. indyjps
    Joined: Feb 21, 2007
    Posts: 5,377

    indyjps
    Member

    This is a great build and the fab work is wonderful. I have to admit - I read to page 4 and noticed the MOT mention before I saw you were in Finland. Makes the build even more complicated due to lack of parts. Great Job.
     
  10. Essex_29
    Joined: Dec 27, 2007
    Posts: 145

    Essex_29
    Member
    from Finland

    Thank you @Johnboy34 and @indyjps for the nice words.
    I've seen pictures in my youth, and youtube videos lately about junkyards in America. Old American iron, row upon row. I'm envious for sure. Getting any kind of car here from the US adds a couple grand to the cost, so a lot of the time it makes no sense bringing a junk car here. Twenties and thirties cars sold new here were used to the extreme end of their usable life, then cut and made to simple farm tractors or the frames made into trailers, so old iron is scarce.
    Oddly enough, for being in such bad shape, my particular car came to Finland in the early-mid twothousands, and has gone through a few owners before I found it for sale a couple years ago. The first three owners were most likely going to restore it, and the last PO, was going to build a rod, but threw in the towel and put it for sale, apparently after taking a good look at all the wood. Me, I just dived in, oblivious (luckily) to how much work it would take to get all the wood out and new structure in. Now its structure is mostly done.
    The roof will get done after the body sits on the frame again. By the way, a circa 2000 model Volvo V70 wagon roof seems to have potential to be an almost perfect fit, the crown seems pretty darn close.
    Not many American cars junked here, but droves of Volvos, Mazdas, Renaults...
     
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  11. indyjps
    Joined: Feb 21, 2007
    Posts: 5,377

    indyjps
    Member

    I know there's an established US way to build these cars. Consider parts that are available locally if they will work. That's hot-rodding.
     
  12. Johnboy34
    Joined: Jul 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,588

    Johnboy34
    Member
    from Seattle,Wa

    I have heard over the years a Volvo wagon roof works out good for a lot of vintage roofs. Your wood removal has been great, I've liked following along. The old iron junk yards are few and far between nowadays, nothing like back in the 60's and 70's.
     
  13. Sakke
    Joined: Mar 12, 2011
    Posts: 285

    Sakke
    Member
    from Finland

    Great looking Hot Rod coming !!! Looking forward to see it finished ! Please post more pics of progress !
     
  14. Essex_29
    Joined: Dec 27, 2007
    Posts: 145

    Essex_29
    Member
    from Finland

    I always appreciate your input and comments! @indyjps using parts that happen to be available is hotrodding, I am of the same opinion. US made parts have that little cool factor though, so I try to get American parts, especially where they're visible. @Johnboy34 Thank you for the inspiring words. Of course the old iron junk yards are not like before, but there's loads of fun junk there, we can see that on youtube every day. I had a friend over there taking photos of old cars in junk yeards justa couple months ago. I have seen rows upon rows of old iron, though that was in Cananda and almost twelve years ago now. @Sakke I suspect you might be the previous owner of this Buick. You had a '57 Pontiac Super Chief parked just a few yards away from it. Funny, since I own a '57 Pontiac Chieftain Catalina Coupe too :)
     
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  15. Essex_29
    Joined: Dec 27, 2007
    Posts: 145

    Essex_29
    Member
    from Finland

    So on to some more hands on stuff. A week or two ago I purchased some 1/8" thick sheet metal (11 gauge, I guess) to box the frame, and to cut miscellaneous parts for the build. Today I fired up the plasma cutter and went to town.
    buick115.jpg
    I bought the plasma just before starting on this project, and I couldn't have imagined how much use I'd have for it. I use plywood templates, which works pretty good. Planning the parts, where to mount the 4-link and drawing up to optimize the use of the sheetmetal, actually cutting it, and then cleaning up the cuts with a grinder, this little heap of parts took me a good while, even if it supposedly is easy work. It would have taken much longer with a bunch of cut off wheels for sure.
    buick116.jpg
    Here's an updated sketch of the K-member. I will probably cut some holes in the boxing plates too. They are cut to step into the frame, I think that will look nice. Mufflers will probably be mounted "inside" the K-member, plans call for a lot of flange joints to be used, so the exhaust system can be removed without too much hassle.
    The triangulated 4-link bottom bars will mount to the K-member at the bottom center in the back, hence the dip towards the center. The frame will ride relatively high ( fendered car), so there will be 8" of room under the frame at rideheight anyway. The lowest part of the frame is the front crossmember at 6-3/8"
    I've planned to probably connect the K-member in the center, under the prop shaft, either with a welded in, or bolted in part.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2022
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  16. goldmountain
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 4,442

    goldmountain

    You should change the title of this thread since you are doing way more than wood removal. I overlooked this for a long time since wood removal has a very limited use in my car (I bought a kit).
     
  17. Essex_29
    Joined: Dec 27, 2007
    Posts: 145

    Essex_29
    Member
    from Finland

    @goldmountain I'm pretty sure one can't change the title of a thread. I can change the tags, but I think the name of the thread is fixed. Some time back I asked what people think, should I quit when the wood removal is done, but the answer was "continue", so I do. The wood removal was the important part, that's what I struggled with, not finding any good info on how to do it.
     
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  18. Essex_29
    Joined: Dec 27, 2007
    Posts: 145

    Essex_29
    Member
    from Finland

    Hole cutting today. I started with cutting holes in plywood to use as templates. I assumed the bigger hole would be suitable, but ended up using the smaller hole anyway.
    buick117a.jpg
    The plasma is fast and nice to use, but the results I get aren't real tidy, so there was a fair amount of grinding to do on the six holes I ended up doing. I ended up having to weld the longer pieces here, the material I had was too short.
    buick117b.jpg
    1/8" thick sheet metal is pretty hard to bend, I don't really have anywhere to fix it to. Anyway I managed to coax it into a sort of a bend, pretty close to what it's going to look like.
    buick117.jpg
    This part is upside down now, if you happen to refer to the sketch above.
     
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  19. goldmountain
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 4,442

    goldmountain

    I amended the title to my thread to indicate that it morphed into a build.
     
  20. Greenblade
    Joined: Sep 28, 2020
    Posts: 554

    Greenblade
    Member

    I like the title, it's what caught my eye. The idea of replacing a wood framed car with metal has been bouncing around in the back of my mind for a few months now. This thread has helped me alot with planning how I'd have to do things if I were to try this myself.
    I love the build so far and look forward to more!
     
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  21. Essex_29
    Joined: Dec 27, 2007
    Posts: 145

    Essex_29
    Member
    from Finland

    @goldmountain Please tell me how to do that, to amend the title of the thread. Because yes, this morphed into a whole project, even if my intention was to show how I did hte wood removal work.
    Thank you @Greenblade it's nice to hear that my build can be of interest for someone.
     
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  23. goldmountain
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 4,442

    goldmountain

    Just above where it says page 4 of 4, there is a small "tags" and "edit". Hit edit and get going. I changed the title of mine from "getting the bugs out" to "getting the bugs out - my T coupe build". I think if you keep wood removal in the title, people will still think it is you.
     
  24. Essex_29
    Joined: Dec 27, 2007
    Posts: 145

    Essex_29
    Member
    from Finland

    @goldmountain Thank you, I finally found it! Thread tools to the right.
     
  25. Essex_29
    Joined: Dec 27, 2007
    Posts: 145

    Essex_29
    Member
    from Finland

    Thank you @TFoch .
    Just a minor update. I started tacking today, and got this part together.
    buick118.jpg
    It went together well, I'm really happy with it, which doesn't happen often, most of the time something is a bit out of whack.
    This thing is still upside down, it will explain itself in time.
    I made a slit on top of my work bench by clamping a piece of two by four wood, the ends of it on top of a couple pieces of 3/32" thick sheet metal, getting about 7" inch wide slit. I then slid in the vertical 5" wide part of this "frame" and bent it to fit the flange parts. Relatively easy to bend it using the slit and getting a good fit, trying to bend this 1/8" thick shet metal part free hand was too hard for me.
     
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  26. Essex_29
    Joined: Dec 27, 2007
    Posts: 145

    Essex_29
    Member
    from Finland

    I thought I'd show you what I meant with the "Slit" I used to bend sheet metal.
    buick118b.jpg
    For the second front part of the K-member I used a piece of rectangular tubing, otherwise as described above.
     
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  27. Essex_29
    Joined: Dec 27, 2007
    Posts: 145

    Essex_29
    Member
    from Finland

    When I made the A-pillars in the beginning of this project, I experienced how the welds pull the material even if the sheet metal is pretty sturdy, so I tacked a bunch of scrap pieces to the flanges before starting to weld.
    buick119b.jpg
    This looks... funny, but it worked. When I welded one flange, you could see both flanges bend in one direction. Welding a similar amount on the other flange made it bend back. I ended up moving a couple pieces to get access to weld the whole seam on the insides. The welds were done in a bit more than an inch long bursts, altering between sides and parts, letting things cool off well between passes.
    After the whole things had cooled down to normal temperature, the scraps were cut off.
    buick119.jpg
    Next will be to grind the outer corners round.
     
  28. Essex_29
    Joined: Dec 27, 2007
    Posts: 145

    Essex_29
    Member
    from Finland

    The edges were ground, and on the whole, things start looking like planned.
    buick120a.jpg
    Hoping this should make for an almost factory look when painted.
    Clamped to the frame with a few visegrips, it's recognizable from my sketches now.
    buick120.jpg
    Front mounts for the lower link bars will be welded to the K-member, and I'd like to be able to weld those off the frame to be able to weld comfortably, so this all calls for some careful planning. before anything else, a bit of the frame will have to be boxed.
     
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  29. You definitely nailed the "factory" look! Nice work!
     
  30. Essex_29
    Joined: Dec 27, 2007
    Posts: 145

    Essex_29
    Member
    from Finland

    Thank you @TFoch , I'll be forced to run a rear axle with a centered pinion, but maybe that's not an issue. Time will tell.
    Not much progress, but I look forward to get something done over the weekend. Today, though, I drilled holes and tapped 1/4"-20 threads for mounting brake lines to the boxing plates. I tacked on the fixture spacers I made a few days ago, and now the first box plate is ready to be welded in.
    buick121.jpg
    Arrows point to the fixture spacers, or jigs, if you will, that space the box plate in about 3/8" at the top edge and 1/2" at the bottom. The bottom flange is a bit wider, so this seemed like a good solution. On the top of that I like the look of a step boxed frame like this.
    I ran out of welding gas when tacking the jig thingies, so I got to get the tank filled up tomorrow after work.
     
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