Folks Of Interest So, how traditional are you?

I am traditional in that my cars are hot rodded and not restored to original or a particular era, though I admire “period correct” builds. Despite the controversy over some “modern” updates like alternators, improved ignitions, and radial tires, I found them useful for my old beaters after battles with the original style items.

 

Unashamedly traditionally inspired. I want a traditional aesthetic. I have no issues with some modern conveniences, depending on the application. I don't like things that are overtly new or modern, like billet aluminum, LS engines, etc. But as long as the modern stuff is hidden away, I take no issue with it. I draw the line at fuel injection and non-traditional wheels and tires. The overall package needs to look right.

The issue becomes here on the HAMB that between "rods" and "customs" is that it's two totally different genres of the automotive hobby unified by whatever would crossover between the two like a Venn diagram. It's like comparing hockey and figure skating. They're unified by the fact that they both take place on ice, and that there is a transferrable skill set in skating and edge work, but beyond that, it's two totally different things. Rods and customs are much like that. But for whatever reason, we attempt to squeeze both into the same set of rules. For example, putting A/C in a rod is not traditional, whereas that stuff could have come factory on a car from the 50s. Same with power steering. You can get away with a lot more building a full-bodied car where you can hide the new stuff away than in a rod where there is nowhere to hide. The powertrain is also much more of a focal point on a rod than a custom, both literally, in the sense that it is often open to view, and in the performance-oriented purpose of a rod.

The other issue is that when it comes to what is considered acceptably traditional, there is a constant, and usually completely arbitrary, moving of the goal posts that makes little-to-no sense to me. A Mustang II front end and air ride, even if completely hidden under the full fenders of a 50s or early 60s car, is taboo and written off as modern, whereas a Vega steering box can hang out in the open on a rod with no hood or fenders and nobody says a word. A 700R4, or even a computer controlled 4L60E/4L80E is too modern, but a T5/TKO500/TKO600/TR3650/T56/TKX... is totally fine and accepted. The T56 debuted in the 1992 Viper, and the TKX was introduced 2 years ago. If anyone can make a logical argument about how that can slide as traditional but a 700R4 can't, my law firm would like to interview you. Whenever I point out this logical disconnect, I usually get something along the lines of "well that's just how it is", which is the adult version of my Mom telling me as a child, "Because I said so".

With all that being said, now I just build and buy what I want with no fucks given to the people that voice their opinions to me but don't contribute with either money, labor or fruitful advice to my project. I'm never going to satisfy everyone, so I might as well satisfy myself.

I like to drive my cars, as well. I want them to steer straight, stop well, ride comfortably, not beat the hell out of me and my passengers, generally be pleasant to be in and spend long periods of time in, and most importantly, be reliable and safe, while being operated in modern traffic (in my geographic area). They also need to look good. To achieve those ends, IMHO, there are going to be some sacrifices of strict traditional for functionality. And I'm good with that.

 

You would not have wanted to listen to the 235 with 4.10 gears in my 37 on a long trip,I know it was spinning faster then 3000. It might be different if it had quieter mufflers.

 

This made me laugh.. excellent points... I agree.

 

Although it would be traditional for the factory (or original add on) AC in a 50s car to never actually work....

 

Might be rethinking about electronic ignitions,they have left me stranded where I could limp home on points. My latest project is going to keep the points and the drum brakes.

 

Points were a real pita when that's all we had, and had to keep the ignition system maintained so we could get to school/work on time, etc.

Now that our old cars are mostly playthings, there's time to relax and have some fun filing the points, setting the gap, lubricating the advance mechanism and point cam, etc.

 

You make excellent points. The other issue I see is over moderation on various threads. I see no issue seeing a PS Pump in a picture as long as it is not the main focus of the post. Especially on a custom or full bodied car. Although, I would not go out of my way to add PS to a full bodied car either.

 

I hear this comment often, and though there is some truth to it, it also needs to be taken in context.

Yes, 3000 rpm is not abusive to the engine. However;

1 - Under general highway driving, meaning just maintaining speed, the car could go just as fast with the engine at 2000-2200 rpm having different gearing.
2 - Though it's not abusive to the engine to run at 3000 rpm, it's less abusive to run at lower rpms
3 - The engines often run cooler under less load
4 - There is significantly less fuel consumption running at lower rpms, which may not be a concern for someone who doesn't drive much, but if you're putting significant amounts of miles on the car, is a major cost reduction with the current prices of fuel
5 - 3000 rpm is different speed for different vehicles. Without overdrive, 3000 rpm for most of us is about 60-65 mph. That's barely right lane speed in most of the country, and at least where I am, if you're in the left lane, that's about 80 mph. Which now is no longer 3000 rpm, it's about 3500 rpm or more depending on your gearing. That's sort of where your foot is leaning into the pedal more than it probably should be, especially for hours on end.

 

You would on my '60 Ford! It's a real handful in a parking lot, that's one upgrade at the top of the list.

 

I hear you, and this is where rational people can disagree on these issues. For myself, I think having something like PS on a rod is completely out of place, but is a matter of personal preference on a full-bodied car that is not inherently untraditional.

But consider the Mustang II example. If you took a post war car and fitted a Mustang II suspension under the front, you'd be swapping one A-arm, independent suspension for another, neither of which would be seen unless you stick your head under the front of the car or into the engine compartment, at which point it still might not be obvious. It's the same thing really, just better. Conversely, a rod that uses a 4 link rear, whether parallel or triangulated, with coil overs, has completely abandoned a traditional suspension design. Which is really the "less traditional" of the two? At best, they're both not traditional.

 

I’ve really enjoyed reading through this thread. It’s obvious that there is a ton of passion behind how we all choose to build or modify. I tend towards traditional, but only because I’m interested in what hot rods were like in my favorite period. For that reason I collect old parts to the extent that I can afford them, and downplay the parts that I have to compromise on.
I can appreciate both the guy running a T5 for the ability to run cross country, and equally the guy that geeks out on the proper door felt. I’m just happy that we have the HAMB else we’d be hanging out on Hemmings or Yellowbullet

 

For the record, our GMC is getting PS because the free donar Dakota had it. It has one of @ELpolacko s Dakota crossmembers. But aside from a couple pics years ago I will not talk in depth on it.

 

To me its all about capturing the essence of the concept rather than worrying about the exact detail of originality. Its great that some people want exact detail, and thats a good thing......but I think that overall its just better to build a vehicle that generally fits the concept yet is enjoyable, safe, and hopefully FAST!

 

I actually think M2 is a sin on almost anything! Sold way too many shitty Heidts that my boss pushed over the years and know better. My old 54 Chevy with fully rebuilt suspension drove like a dream

 

By definition a Hot Rod is a car modified to improve performance or aesthetics to suit the owners tastes. So in the words of Jim Croce: If you dig it, do it. If you dig it alot, do it twice!

That said, plant me firmly in the traditionally appearing camp. I think a 100% authentic period correct car is cool, in the same way I respect and appreciate a 100% correct restoration, but its not for me. I want my cars to be long distance reachers, and liveable in modern traffic at modern highway speeds. Any time, anywhere, any weather. If you can't readily see it, in my mind its ok. So I'll continue to add disc brakes, overdrive transmissions, radial tires, LED lights, and occasionally air conditioning into an otherwise traditional appearing car.

Funny this poll came up today. Late last night I was flipping through YouTube and watching some old Jay Leno restoration blogs. If you haven't seen one, they are just a casual walk through his shop showing the in-process projects they are working on. One showed a beautiful 100 point restored early sixties Maseratti coupe in the final stage of getting a Tremec transmission and Wilwood disc brakes installed.

He explaned that they restored the car from a hulk about fifteen years ago. Since that time he had put only 500 miles on the car. Even though he drives all his stuff, this car wasn't enjoyable to drive, so it tended to be ignored. The issue was the factory transmission sucked. Even perfectly rebuilt, it was a constant pain in the ass to drive. He talked to guys who had driven the cars when they were new, and they admitted that yes, they were always that bad. And the brakes were weak as well.

So he put a modern trans and brakes in place, and the driving experience was, in his words, transformed. "I can have a 100 point car that sits in the corner, or a car with two unseen mods that I want to drive all the time. I have all the stock parts in a crate on a shelf - when I die, if the next guy wants to return it to stock, so be it. But he's gonna hate the way it drives".

Sums up how I feel as well.

 

Me too. I just happen to think that the essence has to do with driving a traditional car should still be a chore, like it used to be

 

While traditionally shopping today at the scrap yard, I was saddened. The claw busted this small supercharger

 

Well put. I'm gonna steal this quote... don't sue me

 

And I understand and respect that point of view..............

 

Nothing is more traditional that enjoying something you built.
If it fits the forum, share it
Gray area? Share it anyway. The bosses can handle it.

 

Somewhere above, Rick Nelson is smilin'

 

I'm not very traditional but that could be because I'm a younger hotrodder. I love the old stuff but can't afford it. I can't afford the new stuff either.
maybe I'm just a bone head that likes what I like.
I've been thinking about a more traditional project ford after I'm done with the Rambler.

 

Traditional-ish. The ish relates to:
Alternator. Because frankly a dynamo and regulator box suck for short slow trips.
LED brake light bulbs. Because the shmuck following isn't paying attention.
Radio, with Bluetooth. Still gotta wait for the tubes to warm up and if you don't connect to it, is just a regular AM set.
12 volts. Still got sealed beams, but at least I can get a new one off the shelf on the road.

So, to look at, superficially you'd not see anything amiss. Pop the hood and sure, there's the newer alternator (which is still 60 years old...) but really that's it. I like to be able to hop in and drive. No power steering (available when car was new), no brake booster (ditto), no A/C (not a factory option in '51) so that's how it gets driven.

I like it, everybody who sees it gets nostalgic, and it makes people smile.

So, that's good enough for me, and this horse runs this course.

Phil

 

It is difficult to shoe horn anyone into one discipline of hot rod or custom design. I can appreciate the talent, effort and ingenuity of traditional builds, modifieds, restos, etc. They all have individual followers and interesting attributes. Who can fault a die hard traditionalist for being passionate about his hobby? Certainly not me. In some cases it is a lifestyle and I consider my time visiting the HAMB to be an invitation to experience the true flavor of traditional hot rodding. I pledge not to shit on the floor while here.
Having said that, someone mentioned it might be time for a "HAMB 2". Not my call but that made me ponder the options of those who are not dyed in the wool traditionalists who are also passionate in other loosely related venues. Lots of those guys here. That's the category I best fit in and thus limit my input to individual occasional posts and snippets of projects.

 

I wouldn't classify it as a chore per say , Its more about being in touch, interacting with the machine ,rather than computers & microprocessors doing all the work for you ! Feeling it !

Before I forget. Why any one would have a 235 with a 4.10 with no OD in anything other than a farm truck & expect to drive it at highway speed eludes me ? That being said , in '69 , my street strip '57 chev was running 4.88 gears ,my family summer cottage was 366 miles , THATS screaming down the highway !

 

I drove the LaSalle Hearse 5000+ miles around the country, with 4.27 gears and no OD. But it would overheat if you wanted to go faster than 55 or 60, so we just took it slow.

My new car is old, but off topic...it has 5.12 gears, and it's just going to take it's time going down the highway at 4000 rpm. But it was designed to do that, and back then, it was fine. Just need to adjust your mind to the old ways.

 

I can hopefully give somewhat of an insight into this. From the inception of "hot rodding" through to it's current standing, the use of a manual gearbox would seem to be the preferred option for the majority of builders and owners. Automatic transmissions, not being mainstream until around 1948, were a late starter in the American automobile industry, and have slowly become more of an accepted option in period correct style hot rods, especially in the last 25 years. But, it seems that the "traditionalists" will go to their grave with one hand firmly gripping their knob..............
The one on the end of their stick shift that is...

This offering can show no logical reasoning to the point made in your statement, so I will assume no offer of an interview will be forthcoming........

Edit: See red section.

 

It can work on a pre-war car also. Back in the late 90's I helped a guy out by basically pawn brokering his 40 Ford Coupe. Car had a Jag IFS/IRS under it along with a 350/350 combo. Guy was a hell of a fabricator/engineer, but unfortunately, was a compulsive gambler. With the hood closed the car could hold it's own with any traditional hotrod around here. I can guarantee it would have fooled, and been accepted, by the hardcore traditional HAMBERS. Real reversed and chromed steel wheels with wide whites. Stock body color (black). Blacked out undercarriage (to hide suspension upgrades). Stock mohair interior complete with stock column shift and clutch pedal (used as line lock/anti-theft device). I'd describe it, in a good way, as 'bullshit traditional'. That car rode/drove/handled better than any 'traditional' 40 I'd ever driven. While a 40 was never a 'must have' for me I might have kept that one. But he streaked one night and showed up with the cash, so I flipped him the keys and wished him luck.

 

This really hit home with me!
After 50+ years of hot rodding, I found myself participating less. The wife and I had gotten OLD, and driving our traditional straight axle, fenderless, beat the crap outta me hot rod became less and less enjoyable. I think a lot of us "old guys" on here can relate.
Fortunately I was able to make a straight-across trade for a "more comfortable" running project car with a fellow HAMBer...and WE'RE BACK BABY!
Sure, it has a LOT of hidden non-HAMB friendly parts, but I finished it to look period correct...and best of all, it allows us to continue enjoying the hobby.