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Technical Spring over

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by oliver westlund, Jan 2, 2022.

  1. oliver westlund
    Joined: Dec 19, 2018
    Posts: 2,353

    oliver westlund
    Member

    Okay ive searched but probably havnt used the right words...can i convert a 46 front i beam to spring over to use on an a frame? Cam i retain the 46 wishbone in foing so?
     
  2. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 7,589

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    Yes, you can convert the I-beam axle to spring over, it doesn't matter to the axle if the spring is in front, over, or in back. And I have seen guys on here use the 46 wishbones by cutting the front mount off and smoothing the wishbone.
     
  3. 31Apickup
    Joined: Nov 8, 2005
    Posts: 3,367

    31Apickup
    Member

    It will require a custom width spring.
     
  4. oliver westlund
    Joined: Dec 19, 2018
    Posts: 2,353

    oliver westlund
    Member

    Seemed like all there was to it but wasnt sure
     
    Lloyd's paint & glass likes this.

  5. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 20,407

    alchemy
    Member

    Or you could get the right width axle that uses common springs (28-36), and use the 46 wishbones and spindle stuff on it. Then there are a lot more variety of aftermarket springs to choose from.
     
    oliver westlund likes this.
  6. dwollam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2012
    Posts: 2,322

    dwollam
    Member

    Oliver, my '29 Sedan avatar has a '40 front axle and split '40 wishbones with the '40 forward spring perches cut off and a custom length (from 1958) spring over the axle and perches.

    Dave
     
    oliver westlund likes this.
  7. Cut the front spring perches off the wishbone and put the perch bolts in with the shackle boss integrated.
     
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  8. oliver westlund
    Joined: Dec 19, 2018
    Posts: 2,353

    oliver westlund
    Member

    Hows the width compare dave?
     
  9. oliver westlund
    Joined: Dec 19, 2018
    Posts: 2,353

    oliver westlund
    Member

    Perfect, already had a set of polished stainless bookmarked!
     
  10. oliver westlund
    Joined: Dec 19, 2018
    Posts: 2,353

    oliver westlund
    Member

    I dont understand the width claims? 1/8"?? Is that it? Screenshot_20220102-195727_Chrome.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2022
    alanp561 likes this.
  11. rdscotty
    Joined: Sep 24, 2008
    Posts: 253

    rdscotty
    Member
    from red deer

    Spring width
     
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  12. oliver westlund
    Joined: Dec 19, 2018
    Posts: 2,353

    oliver westlund
    Member

    I worded it poorly, i meant i dont understand why folks talk about how much wider these axle setups are...looks to be a 1/8" difference
     
  13. adam401
    Joined: Dec 27, 2007
    Posts: 2,856

    adam401
    Member

    The 48 axle is like 1.5 or 2" wider. A 28-34 main leaf wont work. That late front-end stuff can be made to work but it looks pretty clunky. Ive tried making those wishbones work but with that bend they get looking crazy.
    As far as using a spring in front wishbone and modifying it for spring over, yes you can. I just put an axle together for my 34 and used a cut up 40 wishbone. Its not great (im not in love with the perch bolt boss area) but with the long spring perches it works.
    An undropped axle like a 33-36 is pretty easy to put your hands on. In my opinion they look the best but hey who am I
     
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  14. twenty8
    Joined: Apr 8, 2021
    Posts: 2,318

    twenty8
    Member

    Most of the "wider" talk is related to the spring perch dimension. This is the bit where it will affect the whole installation setup, and where a little experience (or guidance) can save both dollars and heartache.

    The small difference in the king pin dimension can be easily accommodated with wheel offset (although 1/16" each side can be ignored). Be especially aware of the '37-'41 axle regarding this. Notice that it is quite a bit shorter. It can still be overcome with 1" more negative wheel offset per side.
     
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  15. oliver westlund
    Joined: Dec 19, 2018
    Posts: 2,353

    oliver westlund
    Member

    I kind of think the bent wishbone looks cool... just wish i could find a pic of the 46 front on an a frame Screenshot_20220103-150949_Chrome.jpg
     
  16. oliver westlund
    Joined: Dec 19, 2018
    Posts: 2,353

    oliver westlund
    Member

    Im trying to run wide 5 wheels on this, already have em. I think the adapters are only 1/8 thick though...will be fenderless. The few appeals the the 46 axle is, i have it, i have the matching rear so the width should match, it has like 2 inches of drop over the model a axle so that plus a reverse eye and losing a leaf or 2 should get me as low as im looking for (i think) its tough because i cant find a ton of pics or documentation on it amd mayne thats for good reason...i HAVE foumd pics of 50s and 60s built rods with this front and rear but those images were blurry and not very helpful for my questions besides validating that it was in fact done enough for surviving examples to be around
     
  17. twenty8
    Joined: Apr 8, 2021
    Posts: 2,318

    twenty8
    Member

    @oliver westlund , this is from another thread.............

    You would need to lengthen your frame, or move the front crossmember forward in the frame to keep the model A correct wheelbase.

    Really though, your best bet is a Model A axle in the Model A frame. Get in touch with some axle drop guys and see if you can use the '46 axle as an exchange core for a dropped A axle. Using stuff just because you already have it can be a sure-fire way to sabotage your own project.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2022
  18. You clearly don't know what I did or why. My build was planned out start to finish to make it exactly what it is. I do believe in its original post I explained everything.
     
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  19. twenty8
    Joined: Apr 8, 2021
    Posts: 2,318

    twenty8
    Member

    Deep breaths man. I think you have mis-understood my post. I was showing your pic as the right way to use a later axle and keep it 'spring in front'.
    I still think the OP should stick with a Model A axle for his build though. If he is having to ask these questions, he should maybe keep the build relatively straight forward.......... (No offence intended.)
     
  20. 20190417_210743.jpg
     
    oliver westlund likes this.
  21. Sorry about that Twenty8, my oven timer was going off and I didn't want my dinner burnt up again. I was going to say you pinned it right in that you must move the crossmember as well as the late front spring is wider than the A spring. There's more to it than just swapping it in place.
    However I didn't know exactly what you were getting at. No offence taken. I do try to fully explain what or how I do things when I post them up myself. I should not have hit Post when I did.
     
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  22. twenty8
    Joined: Apr 8, 2021
    Posts: 2,318

    twenty8
    Member

    All good here at my end...:) You enjoy that dinner.........
     
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  23. twenty8
    Joined: Apr 8, 2021
    Posts: 2,318

    twenty8
    Member

    Blues4U and oliver westlund like this.
  24. Kool, that post of mine kind of spells it all out. Here's a photo that shows the verbal description of all the pieces I was talking about. I've posted it up an unknown number of times. If you think doing this job is out of your wheelhouse stick with all Model A parts. That way everything just goes where it belongs.
    Nov 2011 x 3 002.jpg
     
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  25. oliver westlund
    Joined: Dec 19, 2018
    Posts: 2,353

    oliver westlund
    Member

  26. oliver westlund
    Joined: Dec 19, 2018
    Posts: 2,353

    oliver westlund
    Member

    I read that post, i think ive read all applicable posts, just wasnt finding enough info to satisfy me. Im not sure why it would be out of my wheelhouse to simply get a longer spring and switch the perch setup to spring over? Doesnt seem that complicated... just need to poke at it and look at it and weigh out the options, my roadster is being built out of 6 cars and 3 manufacturers, i dont know everything but i can get by, especially with great help on here
     
  27. twenty8
    Joined: Apr 8, 2021
    Posts: 2,318

    twenty8
    Member

    That is not what @Pist-n-Broke did with his build. He used a later axle but kept it spring in front. A bit more complicated.
     
  28. oliver westlund
    Joined: Dec 19, 2018
    Posts: 2,353

    oliver westlund
    Member

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