Technical Are heads worth the cost on a flathead?

As long as we're talkin engines, nothing looks better than a dressed flathead, or sounds better than a well split stovebolt 6. Horsepower be damned in both cases. Except in certain instances of course. Just my 3cents worth.

 

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Billy, glad you are taking what I said as a "tongue in cheek" comment. The truth is, I love the way a flathead with aluminum heads looks and sounds, and glad that talented builders like yourself build sterling examples for the less talented like myself to ogle.

I have one fairly high dollar engine that I'm putting in a non-hamb-friendly vehicle. I have a soft spot for the old Caddys as I had a 34 Ford with a 365/2 fours. Later put a 500 in a Regal and now my bucket list is to put one (maybe 2) in my next projects. I have a not cheap Cad to Tremec 6 speed setup for the first one. The trans and bellhousing cost me about 7 times what the core engine did. ($500) By the time I'm done building the engine I expect to have about $5K in the build. Coulda done it cheaper and had good power, but just wanted to build one with good HP parts and see what it does.

We all have our preferences and I hope mine looks half as good as yours when its done.

 

I kinda like to see one with chrome nut covers every once in a while.

 

After my foray into flatheads I decided to waste some more money and build a hemi which has long been a goal of mine. I can say, without reservation, it was no bargain build! Damn it is expensive being cool

 

No !

 

I dunno, I've pulled great running engines out of shitbox parts cars to use later.

 

I bought a flathead from a well known builder and he quoted me various hp gains for different components of the engine . He quoted a 8 hp gain for aluminum heads but he did say he was being conservative in his estimates. I am currently building an 8ba and chose a set of EAB heads like yours. I have less than 200.00 in these very nice heads vs 800.00 for another set of alum heads . Most folks would agree a set of alum heads look pretty good but I think those Eab heads nicely painted look dang good and are less likely to cause problems such as stripped spark plug threads and whatnot.

 

Darin, I too am running EAB heads, as you can see from my avatar . The EAB heads were to the best of my knowledge Fords latest and greatest. At the time that my motor was built, there were no relatively low compression Aluminum heads on the market. I believe that the EAB heads had a 7.3 to 1 compression ratio. In my eyes, that was perfect to work in conjunction with supercharging for an on the street motor.

 

I can understand having aluminum heads in the looks department if that’s your thing. Shaving a set of stock heads to offer just the right amount of piston clearance however, will make a pretty darn good hp increase if not more without breaking your budget. A nicely dressed stock looking flattie with all the hidden mods will stand the test of time in looks and performance.

When all is said and done, any flattie, dressed up in whatever configuration, is a great looking and driving motor. Do it once, do it right, and
any little flattie will run a long, long time.

 

Cast iron heads are like a pretty woman in nice jeans.

Finned aluminum heads are like a pretty woman in a sun dress.

Both get results, but one does it a little better.





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So, keeping with that very same train of thought; a pretty woman in a mini skirt or even a bikini, would we now be talking about putting Ardun heads on a flathead?

 

It seems most of you have missed (or disregarded) a post I made on this thread in 2019. There IS a real difference in some aftermarket heads that I believe provides an advantage over the others. As I stated previously, Edmunds heads have the spark plug relocated just enough to clear the valve head. This allows the use of extended tip plugs, which is not possible with stock heads and most aftermarket heads (I have not been able to check them all).

I removed the tired stocker from my '51 Ford and replaced it with a good running '51 Mercury I had. When I did that engine, I installed a Rochester 2G on a bored out Canadian (aluminum) Mercury manifold, a Mallory dual point, and a set of Edmunds finned aluminum heads that had been massaged to bring them down to .045-.050" clearance over the piston domes. After a bunch of checking, I found I was able to run extended tip plugs (Champion L82YC) with these heads (I put 4000-5000 miles a year on this car, and after 5 years, everything is still in tip-top shape and the car performs very well).

Below are some pictures of this installation. The first is a shot straight down the plug hole of an Edmunds head. You will notice that you can't see any of the valve head because the hole has been relocated. The second picture shows the difference between an extended tip plug (L82YC) and a stock H10. The third picture shows the extended tip plug installed in the head. The last picture shows the clearance between the extended tip ground electrode and the head/block surface.

I have to believe that having the spark right out there in the transfer area is more efficient than being tucked up next to the head surface. My experience seems to bear this out. It certainly has to beat running stock plugs in aftermarket heads (which is more common than one would think) completely shrouding them. Even chamfering the bottom of the hole (as some suggest) is of little help.

 

I ain't a flathead builder, but I have to say that was an excellent presentation...........Well Done Tubman

 

Tubman is talking about a tailored, well fitting dress. It will surely get more results.

 

Does anyone have info on Eddie Meyer heads as to their performance or are they just jewelry?

 

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=147642

 

I am not an expert...on anything really, but aluminum heads help dissipate heat on an engine. Heat leads to detonation issues which Joe Abbin said in his book is a flathead destroyer particularly in supercharged applications. I can run more timing, more compression and more boost with them than without them is the consensus of Joe's book. Are aluminum heads as beneficial as chrome valve covers when it comes to horsepower? Well I will leave that to the rest of you to hash out. They do look good tho

 

In my opinion, ALL aftermarket heads are just "Jewelry" for the most part. Because of the manufacturing tolerances required to permit the production of "one size fits all" heads, the result is a head with less than optimum performance characteristics. This is not to say that they don't provide an increase in performance "out of the box", but they are all lacking. All heads need to be modified to fit the individual characteristics of the engine they are installed on. The major issue is clearance over the piston dome. Ideally, this should be set to .045-.050" to promote optimum "squish" (See the works of Sir Harry Ricardo to find the basis for this.) There are various threads, both here and on the "Ford Barn" about how this is accomplished, so I won't waste time and space on the details.

A second factor is the size of the head bolt/stud in most aftermarket heads. Because of complaints about the difficulty of removing the heads after they have been on for a number of years, the manufacturers started producing heads with oversize bolt holes. A new set of heads will have holes 1/2" or even larger to alleviate the removal problem. This creates a problem with an engine with 7/16" bolts/studs. The heads can "float" around on the block reducing the efficiency of the modifications for optimum "squish". Because of this, most "high-end" flathead builders install pins to locate the heads, much like OHV engines. For those of us who are unable to do this, I came up with an alternative method. I outlined it on the "Ford Barn" a few years ago : https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=201601&highlight=Edmunds.

A set of heads should be "blueprinted" before use to promote optimum performance.

 

MERRY CHRISTMAS BILL & HAPPY NEW YEAR

Figured your eyesight was blurred from looking at all the shine

 

Upfront, I'm not a flathead guy, I like Olds, Pontiac, Buick engines and would never spend money "building" a flathead. (Not to say I wouldn't own one, I just won't fund it). But I did offer to head up my good buddy's flathead project for him. Doing so I got to learn a bit about flatheads. One thing I learned is that like most aftermarket parts, don't expect anything to just bolt right on without some "finessing". He provided some used Edelbrock heads and we soon found out that they had been milled to death. New Edelbrock heads are not available right now, so he bought Offenhauser heads. Big money. Of course, the studs he purchased a long time ago wouldn't work so he had to buy new ones. More money.
With the engine assembled, we installed the heads with gaskets and no nuts and did a slow and careful rotation of the crank looking for any problems. The valves were trying to push the heads up off of the deck. Further checking showed that there was significant interference. Luckily our machine shop had the tool for clearancing the heads. More money. It must be a common enough problem that they made a commercially available fixture and cutter just for making valve clearance. It all turned out well, but I wonder how much of the High Compression advantage we lost with the additional clearancing.
The moral of the story is that the initial $700-1000 investment for the heads can be just the tip of the proverbial iceberg. If your budget is an issue you are better off with cleaned up stock heads. Like someone said, you can always change them later. But if you want the traditional hot rod flathead look be ready to spend some bucks. I think the actual performance improvement for street use is negligible.

 

Interesting fixture. Any pic of the cutter?

 

Curious which machine shop had that tool. Baechler?

 

Back at ya Bob! Here's to flatheads and full glasses!

 

That is one neat tool. Thanks for the pics.
Marcus...

 

Yep, Baechler’s Machine. I need to go and visit with the guys so I’ll try to get a picture of the cutter.
A while back he was cleaning house at the shop and thought he hadn’t used that tool since he got it many years ago so I ought to just toss it but like most of us he just put it back on the shelf. Whew, sure glad he didn’t toss it! It worked great, I think he has a new appreciation for it.

 

Like my daddy always said , “Flatheads, the most money you can spend to go slow”

 

Daddy probably never raced cars between 1932 and 1953 because they ruled the world back in the day, so like everything... when we build a car we all choose a time frame we want it to fit in. They have many benefits is why the racers used them back in the day- Light weight- performance- better cooling- good looks. No one wants to show up at the race track with a stock heavy cast iron lump under their hood. Racers squeezed everything they could from the poor old flattie until they realized it was futile against the mighty overhead valve engines. They sure gave it Hell for over 20 years untill its time had come to move over for more potent modern engines. Its worth it to go back in time and feel how our Fathers and Grandfathers felt in their Hot Rods.

 

Your Daddy was wrong!

 

Oh my... Thats Flat gittin wit it!!!