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Technical Packard 440 radio interference

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Robert J. Palmer, Dec 20, 2021.

  1. I have checked with a moderator about this tread.

    I need to run a one-way radio for vintage oval track racing. I plan on running Packard 440 plug wire

    Tech support doesn't know if Packard 440 Solid core will interfere. They had no idea what solid core wire was.

    Does anyone know if solid core plug wire will affect a RaceCeiver track radio?
    upload_2021-12-20_19-18-46.png
     
  2. It very likely will cause issues if the wires aren't enclosed by grounded metal. That's why Corvettes had those plug wire shields, to stop the RF noise. Ask the vendor is the radio is shielded for RF noise or if it has circuitry to remove it.
     
  3. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 5,325

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    Yea ... right! I'm pretty sure the word you are looking for is "No".
     
    loudbang likes this.
  4. I don't know... this is supposedly a 'race' radio, is everyone else using carbon-core wires? It might pay to ask the track/sanctioning body also if they have any rules about it.
     

  5. Dave G in Gansevoort
    Joined: Mar 28, 2019
    Posts: 2,598

    Dave G in Gansevoort
    Member
    from Upstate NY

    Robert, I believe one of the vendors sells modern spiral core wire that is black to look like the old solid core wire, for that exact reason. FYI, we have used spiral core wire with Vertex magnetos and didn't have any problems with it.

    Magnecor is the brand that I have used. It's spendy but probably the best made wire. I had a set on an ot mini engine, 5 wires, that were quite expensive back in the 90s. I hate to think what it's going to cost to replace them soon. But IMHO they are worth it.
     
    Robert J. Palmer likes this.
  6. Mike VV
    Joined: Sep 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,029

    Mike VV
    Member
    from SoCal

    Why bother... Modern, race style, spiral core wire allows the electrons to move just as fast as the old 440 wire !

    Mike
     
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  7. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 5,325

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    What's the frequency, Kenneth? If it's high enough, it will be OK.
     
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  8. is that a FM or AM signal? If it is FM I would think you will be ok.
     
  9. Why bother because I am building a vintage car to running in a vintage series, and outside of safety I want a car 100% period correct!

    If it wasn't for the tracks requiring the one-way radio, I wouldn't have any modern electronic Bull Shit on the car!






     
  10. Thank-You for the info I will look into it, but I am cheap...I mean frugal, and I have 2 rolls of Packard 440.:D

    Can you be cheap and own a racecar?
     
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  11. Davesblue50
    Joined: Oct 25, 2021
    Posts: 200

    Davesblue50
    Member

    LOL. Don't see many REM references around here.
     
  12. Dave G in Gansevoort
    Joined: Mar 28, 2019
    Posts: 2,598

    Dave G in Gansevoort
    Member
    from Upstate NY

    That's the Scots in you. We're a thrifty people on my mother's side too!

    The Italian side however...
     
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  13. 4tford
    Joined: Aug 27, 2005
    Posts: 1,824

    4tford
    Member

    Where is antenna in relation to engine compartment? Also make sure hood is grounded. RFI is radiated to the antenna and antenna location is important. We had copper core wires standard back in the day without RFI issues by grounding hoods etc.
     
  14. Canuck
    Joined: Jan 4, 2002
    Posts: 1,104

    Canuck
    Member

    Put 440 in one of my first cars, gave it a faint buzz to the AM radio, thought is was kind of neet. Neighbour came over one day and was talking about a intermittent interference on their TV, little dotted lines running across the screen. Don't know if he suspected me or not. So interference with AM and FM bands. I'd go with the carbon core if in doubt about the radio.
     
  15. Dave G in Gansevoort
    Joined: Mar 28, 2019
    Posts: 2,598

    Dave G in Gansevoort
    Member
    from Upstate NY

    I'm going to try running one of my Vertex magnetos in the Whatever project when done. And I intend to run solid core wire! It should be neat pulling up along side of a guy who has an OT new car, and all he can hear on his sound system is me revving the engine!
     
  16. Yes , it will cause static , changed mine to MSD super conductor wires .
     
  17. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 13,174

    Budget36
    Member

    I’d bet you could find a suppressor of some sort if static is an issue.
     
  18. That's the problem there's a void the modern racers, and tech people don't know, understand or really care about the vintage stuff, and the people who do care got out before the use of radios. No one really can answer, I was hoping someone on the HAMB had done some vintage racing with solid core wire and a radio.

    Most of the cars in the class I am building for are period correct but of a late 60s-early 70s vintage so they can run some "modern" parts and they don't look out of place.

    Where I am building for an early sixties to mid sixties style right down to the use of a Mallory Flat Cap and points. I have a self-imposed pre 1965 parts cut off on this car, everything is pre 1965 or hand built by myself and/or my father. and anything modern would completely blow the look.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2021
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  19. BamaMav
    Joined: Jun 19, 2011
    Posts: 6,711

    BamaMav
    Member
    from Berry, AL

    When Radio Shack was big in business, we used to buy a noise eliminator kit that wired into the hot wire on the CB radios. If there is a CB shop in your area you might check with them, if not, look online for one.
     
    Robert J. Palmer likes this.
  20. TrailerTrashToo
    Joined: Jun 20, 2018
    Posts: 1,289

    TrailerTrashToo
    Member

    Old retired electronic guy here. I did lots of communications stuff in the '60s thru 80's.

    DISCLAIMER: I am "Call-a-grandchild obsolete"

    First: A link to the radio
    https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Nitro-Bee-Single-Channel-UHF-Receiver,67397.html

    Some specifications from the speedway link:
    1. ... receiving any single UHF frequency between 440.0000 ~ 469.9875 Mhz.
    2. Ability to use stereo ear buds
    3. AAA Battery Required (not included).
    4. (DCS Digital Code Squelch) and CTCSS (Continuous Tone-Coded Squelch System). Used to eliminate problems of overlapping chatter on the same frequency where more that one user is on the same channel. The audio is "coded" much like a key to a lock and the individuals with the proper "tone code" int he radio and reciever will only hear each other, locking out all other signals except ones with the correct code.
    5. An observation from the picture in the above link - This receiver should fit in your shirt pocket.

    COMMENTS:
    1. Electrical noises in the race car electrical system (still using 6 Volts?;)) should not be a problem - you are using an AAA battery and totally isolated from the race car electrical system.
    2. This radio has some form of digital modulation - (DCS Digital Code Squelch) and CTCSS (Continuous Tone-Coded Squelch System). This "should" give you some resistance to the lower frequency radio frequency (RF) noise generated by the spark events.

    RECOMMENDATION:
    Show up at the first test and tune day with your Packard 440 Solid core wire installed. Be prepared to do a quick substitute of:
    1. Resistor ignition wire
    OR
    2. Resistor spark plugs

    Russ
     
  21. No grandchildren here only 40, but when it comes to technology, I am a 6 volt guy living in a 12 volt world.

    Thank-You.
     
  22. There is a third choice after I thought about it a bit.... resistor spark plug wire ends.
    Amazon.com: NGK LZFH Resistor Spark Plug Cap, Black, Standard : Automotive
    Commonly used on motorcycles, snowmobiles, etc that use solid-core wire for RF suppression. They may not physically fit your particular application or present 'the look' you need. They do fit the pre-'65 time frame as these have been around for years and are still used. There are multiple configurations available.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  23. dan c
    Joined: Jan 30, 2012
    Posts: 2,520

    dan c
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    i ran that wire in the old days, and the only time it made noise was at a stoplight. but the fun part was watching the people around me mess with their radios to get rid of that buzzing noise!
     
  24. oldolds
    Joined: Oct 18, 2010
    Posts: 3,407

    oldolds
    Member

    I doubt many people could look at the spark plug wires and see that they are spiral core wires or resistor spark plugs.
    I understand that you will know.
    Some old guys have told me that the older ignition systems did not make enough power to work with spiral core wires and resistor plugs, resulting in spark plug related problems. I have never noticed that problem.
     
  25. Yes, I will know and small things like that drive me crazy, and it's the small details that make the people who know and understand vintage hot rodding and racing appreciate.

    I refuse to run modern aluminum bead lock wheels. I want a car that looks and performs on the track like a car did back in the day.

    Back in the day is a recognized period of time.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2021
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  26. Pete1
    Joined: Aug 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,254

    Pete1
    Member
    from Wa.

    The race radios use FM and coded squelch.
    With the strong local type signals encountered, there is rarely any ignition noise and if there is it is minimal and no problem.
    I vintage raced for 20 years and used radios at some tracks. Since I worked in the 2 way radio industry for many years, I tried a lot different types and frequencies of radios along the way.
    As long as we did not try to talk more than a mile they all worked ok with mags and super hot ignitions.
     
  27. Harv
    Joined: Jan 16, 2008
    Posts: 974

    Harv
    Member
    from Sydney

    Another period correct alternative is to shield the wires with braided wrap, bonded back to the block. It makes a Faraday cage around the wires, and limits RF transmission. Scintilla did the same when RF interference was an issue on their magnetos, along with a bonded cast-aluminium cap. Excerpts below from the Scintilla manual. I've got one of those ally caps somewhere in my stash.

    Cheers,
    Harv
    Vertex screening hood 1.JPG
    Vertex screening hood 2.JPG
    Vertex screening hood 3.JPG

    Cheers,
    Harv
     
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  28. Harv
    Joined: Jan 16, 2008
    Posts: 974

    Harv
    Member
    from Sydney

    Found it:
    vertex screened hood 1.jpg
    vertex screened hood 2.jpg vertex screened hood 2.jpg

    Cheers,
    Harv
     
    Max Gearhead likes this.
  29. Scots Irish and German on my dad's side my grandma's maiden name was Kellerhouse.

    Thank-You, I knew someone on the HAMB would have the answer.
     
  30. Dave G in Gansevoort
    Joined: Mar 28, 2019
    Posts: 2,598

    Dave G in Gansevoort
    Member
    from Upstate NY

    We're probably the same clan... heaven help the rest of them!
     

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