First post, have been considering a 32/33 build for a long time and I may actually do it in 2022. Let's say that I choose to buy a rolling chassis from a reputable vendor; I'm currently leaning towards the IFS offering from P&Js. When the frame arrives, am I expected to do my own alignment on the frame or can I assume that the frame will arrive square and ready for me to start bolting parts? I recently sat through some videos on what it takes to align a frame and it turned me off to the project because it seemed like a lot to take on. But I'm hoping that by buying from a reputable vendor this step would be largely avoided. I welcome all thoughts and replies.
To quote "Ronnie" : TRUST BUT VERIFY! Meaning : CHECK IT YOURSELF BEFORE YOU START BOLTING THINGS ON IT!! That way you will know what you have, & won't wake up in the middle of the night wondering : "IS IT OR ISN'T IT?" Even from a quality shop, it pays to check! After all, the shipper could have bent it or (worse) twisted it in shipment. Again : NEVER ASSUME!!! End of rant.....
I would bet the frame will be square or at least it was after manufacturing but shippers can be rough on freight. One of the things I've seen is hole's drilled in the frame can be off. So measure the frame itself not using the hole's then measure the hole's.
This. If it's a reputable vendor, your chances are good, but you check to be sure. Mistakes can be made, and things can happen in shipping. Measuring is cheap insurance. That being said, you are on the wrong forum for an IFS build. But, don't leave, maybe we can convince you why a traditional suspension is way cooler.
Lay it on a flat level surface to see if it's got any major twists. Pick some points that are the same distance from a point of your choice and mark them. measure from the floor on both sides and use these points to determine any twist. Pick two points, front and rear on each side. They must be measured from a fixed point. Mark them with a dot, not a line. They must be marked a the exact same point on the frame rails. Measure diagonally, one side and the other. If the distances are the same it's square. It is critical that all marks are equidistant and in their same relative position, left to right and front to rear. You will find that most old frames are a little off. Squareness can usually be fixed on these by securing the frame so it can't lift off the floor on one side, then hook a chain to front and back, diagonally, and pull with a ratchet type load binder and a cheater if needed. Go a little over. I use a 2X4 jammed up against a beam in the shop to hold 'em down. The thing will spring back a bit when you let it loose. Minor twist will usually straighten out when you mount the body. If it's square within 1/4" you're in pretty good shape, especially if using hair pins or split bones. You can adjust the front axle to be equidistant to the rear by using the threaded rod ends. If the frame is bent anywhere take it to a frame shop.
Alignment of a welded chassis? Boxed? You need specs and either a way to straighten any issues or a big hammer. What does alignment mean? Tolerance? These old frames were good if within 1/4 inch of square. body panel alignment on 32s can be tricky if ya don’t know how. ive placed both OE and Brookville bodies on boxed aftermarket chassis. The holes are generally off. the cowl bolt holes are important, the rest is squaring the body with the chassis. Die grind the rest of the holes to fit. Then adjust doors at the cowl and possibly shims under the body. What’s an IFS?
Not to be an ass, but if the frame alignment is going to present a problem for you, you may want to consider paying someone to build your car. Very few of the aftermarket parts are perfect (often the OEM parts were less then perfect). Maintaining the alignment on nearly everything on the car is an ongoing process, if you want to end up with a car that functions correctly. Everything on the car has to be in alignment with something else on the car, and often be in alignment with several other things on the car. Keeping things in alignment is an important part of a build, its something you will need to get used to, and be able to do. Gene
Most aftermarket frames are jig built and are shipped on a heavy skid/pallet that is designed to protect them. I get FB posts from a rod shop that builds frames fairly often showing another frame crated up and ready to head out the door and the crate looks as stout as the frame itself. I did see a factory GM frame for something like a Chevelle sitting in a freight company terminal with no crating one day years back when I picked up a shipment though.
INHERENTLY FUGLY SUSPENSION................... And to @RobertCalifornia , check everything....twice.........and then again to make sure.
Gene nailed it. There's a reason alignment shops exist and it's not because the Big 3+ can't build square chassis, well maybe it is...
Yes, thats mostly my plan, apologies if my OP didn't make that clear. But in spite of that, most replies here are stating that I should still be expecting to receive a frame that may not be fully aligned.
The big 3 is GM, Ford, and Mopar. I would hope any repro frame you buy is built on a strong jig and will remain square if shipped in a crate. There should be no “alignment “ needed. But you can check the thing to make sure it didn’t get sprung in shipping. A tape measure pulled in an X pattern should show it.
Your thoughts are my same assumption - if I'm paying 10K+ for a chassis, I expect it to be square and ready to go when it arrives. But there's clearly plenty of differing opinions on that.
If you're buying from Pete & Jakes, you can be pretty darn sure of the quality! However, it doesn't hurt to break out a tape measure once the chassis arrives!
P&J stuff is going to be pretty good quality generally. I would still check before I painted it and started screwing it together. I would hang around here and read and get a handle on it before i jumped if I were you. That way you don't waste money on a project then change your mind on direction.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news here, but there are major vehicle manufacturers rolling vehicles off of the line right now that are as much as 6mm off (that's about 1/4" for the SAE folks) in the chassis. The alignment focus is in the visible portions of the vehicle. All manufacturing processes have tolerances. Tighter tolerances increase production costs. They are built with enough adjustment in the suspension that they are perfectly aligned at the wheels I worked on F-Body GM cars back in the day that were almost 1/2" off. They still went straight down the road. So check, but unless the entire frame was CNC machined, expect some variance. Remember always, unless you are using a laser scanner, your measurement methodology will likely introduce error. Tape measures are not all that accurate, and get worse over distance. Pete and Jakes stuff is well made. I would trust it, but keep in mind that the body that is going on it might also have some variances of its own. Even my Wife's modern German sedan has shims under body panels getting them to correct alignment. Hot rodding is not an exact science. Bolt-on go-fast parts for modern cars often have oversize, and/or slotted holes for a reason.
You didn't say what part of the frame alignment put you off: tool; talent; or just the fact it's a bit boring. I will say that if your expectations are that you can just bolt on parts to a square chassis and it all comes out correctly you probably need to do a bit more homework before deciding to build it yourself. Search: rear end alignment; front end alignment; body alignment and shimming; cowl, hood, and radiator shell alignment; etc. If that's stuff you don't want, or like, to do you might consider buying a built car and just do some cosmetic stuff to your liking. Definitely get yourself a hotrod. Just decide what process of getting one works for you. Some guys like the building as much, or more, than the driving. Some just want to turn the key and cruise. Most of us like both. But building one isn't a quick deal.
This is what I was referring to when I mentioned alignment shops and the Big 3 not building square chassis. As mentioned, aftermarket chassis built in a jig or on a frame table should have tighter tolerances so I wouldn't be too concerned, but it wouldn't hurt to check things before getting too deep in a project. There's a reason body shims exist after all and when working with sheetmetal that could be knocking on a century old, one must expect things to not line up perfectly without some finessing, it's all part of the process. Case in point. I just finished building a tube chassis for a '29 Ford roadster. It's as flat and square as the day is long. I still need to shim under the cowl attachment points to get the doors to close and fit the way I want them to. I've had to do the same thing with aftermarket chassis and bodies. Just the way it is.
The new chassis is a not perfect reproduction of a not perfect original. The original Ford body isn’t perfect. You could hit a home run right out of the box and it all fits. I’ve seen body alignment issues fought on nice OE bodies on nice OE chassis. A 32 (like most Ford and Chevy bodies of this era) were cheap cracker boxes for the masses. Fit and finish isn’t what we expect today. When you assemble it, are you trying to reproduce the factory inconsistencies or improve them? I’ve pulled patterns from side to side and measurements and found door and qtr panel differences. Even body mounting hole measurements that we inconsistent with our known correct chassis dimensions. So someone complaining about a chassis/body fitment issues, could just be wrestling the imperfect design and construction of the original. Now add decades of stress, damage, abuse, improper repair to a imperfect to begin with car and WOW. Crap has to be wrestled to fit. Add this to what boxing a frame can do to frame rails. Even in a jig. One 33 I helped build, we welded 3/8 inch pieces of flat steel, about 1 inch square to replace the body mounting holes. We aligned the body to the chassis. Drilled, then tapped for the body mounting. (Frame was boxed) this eliminated die grinding body mount hole to fit the chassis. Time consuming but was very clean and the floor on this car was in great shape. So: an imperfect body (with unknown issues) gets bolted to an imperfect copy of an imperfect original. Thus chassis and body alignment issues.
To add about bodes: I have on rare occasion had two of the same year, make, and model in the shop, at the same time, for similar work. I have found differences between those made in different factories, or widely different points in the production run. I have made patch panels for one that would not fit the other, and had to mark them I did not try to put them on the wrong car. Repro panels often need to be tweaked, because they can only be made "in the ballpark". Not even new metal can be counted on to be perfectly accurate. Near-century-old metal even less so. Fiberglass is in a different universe.
I have bought a few frames from Blackboard Hot Rods and was very pleased with the customer service & quality. Home | Blackboard Hotrods
I understand you are paying a good chunk of coin and you expect it to be perfect or close to, well sorry to disappoint, it will be probably better than than the oem can do and that is fine because it really doesn’t need to be. As has already been pointed out every thing related to body work on a vehicle is a matter of compromise concerning tolerances. I’m thinking your probably going to purchase a complete body , most likely aftermarket, which is best because someone has already taken the time to ensure everything fits together fairly good. Should you be purchasing un- assembled parts well I wish you well in that endeavor, I expect nothing will play nice with anything else without a fair bit of persuasion. If you are after a paint by number kind of deal this is not the hobby for you . Little story from when I started my apprenticeship, all we ever seemed to get were aftermarket panels for replacement, and I thought man if I could only get oem panels my life would be so much easier, well imagine my horror and disgust when I did and it was as bad if not worse!
From your username it is safe to assume that you are in California (or you just have a really cool last name). There are enumerable members of this board in California. Chances are there is one (or 2, or 10, or 40) near you. You need not do this alone. I am sure that if you disclose your rough location, someone will speak up that can provide guidance, reassurance, help, expertise, etc.
Yes, double check everything. I bought a 34 Ford truck frame from a reputable rod shop not too far away and proceeded to build my truck. I started from the front to the rear, assuming that a rod shop frame built on a jig would be right. Well, when I got to the rear, trying to fit the bed, I found out they welded it together 1 1/2 inches too narrow, I had to adjust all the mounts from the cab back. So even reputable builders can screw the pooch on occasion.
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