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Projects Building My First Roadster in San Francisco

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by J.Ukrop, Sep 7, 2020.

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  1. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 17,209

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    Sounds great Joey!

    if you find your biscuits go flat between now and the road it’s pretty common.

    chassis engineering inc (rip) carried the good ones, Im not entirely sure if heidts picked that up as well but I do know Cory over at Rjays here in Missouri has the good stuff ;).

    Good luck on the hunt!
     
  2. Last edited: Dec 6, 2021
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  3. 51504bat
    Joined: May 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,792

    51504bat
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Don't have first hand experience but I was told that the Drake mounts have a metal band around the rubber which helps to keep them from going flat like other ones. Not sure if its true or not but the guy who passed on this info was usually spot on.
    Edit: just checked the Drake site and the photo of the mount shows a metal ring around the rubber. Of course if the rubber biscuit itself is crap the metal ring won't be much help.
     
    Tim likes this.
  4. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 17,209

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    the speedway rubbers and other commonly available ones have regularly gone flat/ smashed before a car even gets out of the mock up stage. Lots of threads about it if you want to snoop around for more info but that’s the jist :)
     
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  5. rivguy
    Joined: Feb 16, 2009
    Posts: 150

    rivguy
    Member

    I'd read somewhere that old time hot rodders used to use hockey pucks. as motor mount cushions. Don't know how accurate that is. Anyone else heard that? Joey, I've read your thread from the beginning. great work! Thanks for documenting your journey, I know how much effort and time that takes.
     
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  6. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 17,209

    Tim
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    from KCMO

    Yup plenty of guys use Canadian made pucks! @Tuck might have more info
     
  7. @Tuck is a Kanadian. Can't trust those guys who spell it with a K... :D

    High quality hockey pucks still get used for a ton of stuff up here. A lot of farm boys use hockey pucks as a cheap body lift kit for their trucks, and I've come across a number of old tractors and cars with hockey pucks as engine mounts. They work.
     
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  8. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 1,446

    trevorsworth
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    My friend had a problem with flat biscuits, she got fixed up pretty good with new rubber ones… softer than a hockey puck though. :eek:
     
  9. denis4x4
    Joined: Apr 23, 2005
    Posts: 4,203

    denis4x4
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Colorado

    Get the biscuits for the Float A Motor kits from any Model A equipment dealers. I used the Speedway Chevy motor mount rubber on the roadster.
     
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  10. dumprat
    Joined: Dec 27, 2006
    Posts: 3,485

    dumprat
    Member
    from b.c.

    Energy suspension makes urethane mounts too. They need some cosmetic love though. They are a little square looking.
     
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  11. J.Ukrop
    Joined: Nov 10, 2008
    Posts: 2,817

    J.Ukrop
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    IMG_0397.jpg
    Great motor mount advice, everyone. I figured you would get a kick out of my recent homework reading assignment.
     
  12. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 5,837

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    I like that roadster. Flathead 6! Ford or Mopar? Do the tires and frame horns adequately protect the nurf bar? :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2021
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  13. RodStRace
    Joined: Dec 7, 2007
    Posts: 4,057

    RodStRace
    Member

    Just a wild thought, the original Minis had rubber suspension (no springs).
    https://www.minimania.com/part/FAM3968/Classic-Mini-Suspension-Cone-spring-Standard

    They are a lot more money than a hockey puck, but with that in mind, the pucks always seemed to be a case of too much hardness, almost as solid as metal. While NVH is not a real concern, having a more forgiving bushing seems realistic.
    There are a lot of products designed to do the job. Research applications. Example:
    https://www.mcmaster.com/vibration-damping-mounts/
     
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  14. A Boner
    Joined: Dec 25, 2004
    Posts: 7,441

    A Boner
    Member

    With the vin on the original A frame...are there any DOT problems when the original frame is replaced with a deuce frame?
     
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  15. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 17,209

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    according to his journal post today ford.
    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/?p=49919

    I think mopar has the carbs on the drivers side?
     
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  16. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 5,837

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    You have to actually have documents before the VIN matters.
    No, The carbs on MOPARS are on the wrong side like Fords. Henry didn't like sixes. don't know how they ever came to be.
     
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  17. J.Ukrop
    Joined: Nov 10, 2008
    Posts: 2,817

    J.Ukrop
    SUPER MODERATOR
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    This next update is one to serve as a reminder (mostly to myself) that things don’t always go as planned with these old cars. And, in the spirit of the build, there’s a little bit of a story—and a lesson to be learned.

    With a big day of roadster work planned for Saturday, I decided to take it easy Friday night. Other than running errands, my only plan was to drive my car to Tommy’s Joynt. I checked the weather; it was 48 degrees and clear. I rolled the car out of the garage and into the driveway. I hopped in, fired it up and let it idle for a little longer than usual to warm it up. I then parked it on my neighbor’s super steep driveway while I returned my truck to position in front of the garage.

    When I went to go start the roadster again, it had trouble firing. I’ve only driven it one other time since returning from Thanksgiving, and that was a short trip to run errands. While leaving the store the last time, I encountered the same issue but I figured it was an isolated incident.

    I should have checked the battery voltage before leaving, but instead I fired it up and set off into the night with the lights on. The car ran excellent, but as I approached my destination in the Tenderloin, the fuel pump was really loud. When I parallel parked the car on a steep stretch of Geary, I let it sit for a second. Then I tried starting it. It turned over but wouldn’t fire. I continued to run the fuel pump as I tried a number of times. After all this, the battery read 12.1. Damn.

    So, there I sat on the side of the street with Friday night traffic whipping by. I opened the hood and turned on the pump to check the fuel pressure. It read zero. I then pulled off the fuel line at the carb and ran it. There was no fuel flow at all. The pump was hot. Battery: 11.9V.

    I used what was left in my jump box to bring it back, but it wouldn’t stay running. The fuel pressure remained at zero. I pulled the floor and grabbed my backup pump.
     
  18. J.Ukrop
    Joined: Nov 10, 2008
    Posts: 2,817

    J.Ukrop
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    With the new pump in place, the engine roared to life just like it has in the past. I wasted little time collecting my tools, throwing the car into gear and gunning towards home. I made it back without any issues. When I rolled into my garage, I had mixed feelings. Part of me felt down that my car, which has been doing so well for so long, is having issues. On the flip side, I was happy with the way I handed the situation. The fact that I was able to troubleshoot and revive the roadster on the side of a major city street and successfully drive it home makes me proud of how far I've come.

    Now that I've had a few days to think about what happened out there, I have a few hypotheses.

    1) Parking the car on two steep hills during startup made the pump run dry, hence the loud noise and subsequent overheating. By continually cranking the car without any fuel flow, it ran down the battery. Swapping in the replacement pump seemed to remedy the issue.

    2) Maybe there is a parasitic draw on the electrical system after all. I charged the battery to 13 volts, and I'll check on it after the holidays to see how it holds up.

    Not the best update, but I figured it was worth sharing. Just like every issue we've come across in the past, we're going to get to the bottom of all of this. The most important thing is that I keep this old hot rod on the road!
     
  19. RodStRace
    Joined: Dec 7, 2007
    Posts: 4,057

    RodStRace
    Member

    You had mentioned low charging before, with talk of pulleys, RPM and such in comments. I don't recall you changing the pulleys, checking output with load (lights) or any other diagnosis or repair.
    1. Fix charging system to provide output at idle with a load.
    2. Electric motors HATE low voltage. While parking on a hill might starve the pump and make it run hot, No. 1 will also cause this. You don't mention where the fuel level was, and the pump is located under the floor at least a foot under the tank, so even SF street angles should not cause the inlet side to be exposed to air. It ran back to the house, so there was some fuel left. So IMHO back to No. 1.
    3. Check for parasitic draw and voltage drops. You don't have any of the typical modern accessories that will draw with the key off. Any draw in the car should be found and fixed. Check battery condition too. A tired battery will not hold a charge well.

    https://www.engine-light-help.com/voltage-drop.html
     
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  20. I have to ask. Why are you running a fuel pump? The float bowl on your carb is even with the top of your sediment bowl. You should never starve that carb for gas unless your tank is empty. I have a 31 roadster and run two Winfield CC carbs on gravity with the float bowls a bit higher than yours with never a fuel starvation issue. I know your in hill country but we have some nasty hills in Pa. My thoughts are keep it simple and ditch that pump.
     
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  21. RodStRace
    Joined: Dec 7, 2007
    Posts: 4,057

    RodStRace
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  22. denis4x4
    Joined: Apr 23, 2005
    Posts: 4,203

    denis4x4
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Colorado

    5605E959-02C5-4C94-B3CE-22B0C419DDBF.jpeg

    Not quite the same set up as yours, but I can switch fuel pumps in less than two minutes. Mine are mounted side by with quick connect wiring. I’ve had to switch twice with this set up.
     
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  23. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 5,837

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    One lesson you have learned well: Your roadster has a trunk for carrying tools and spare parts. A well stocked tool box and a well thought out spare parts stash will almost always get you home eventually. It is all part of the adventure. :D
     
  24. J.Ukrop
    Joined: Nov 10, 2008
    Posts: 2,817

    J.Ukrop
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    Great advice. I did swap back to the stock pulley, which has worked great for all of my recent adventures (racing in Oregon, city cruising in San Francisco and everything in between). My amp gauge has been reporting charge whenever I drive, but I'll take a closer look when I'm back in town.

    A fair question. My part of town is called Lone Mountain. It's hilly. While running the updraft, I faced fuel starvation issues with a nearly full tank basically everywhere I went. Other than this most recent scenario, I have been happy with the way the system is set up. That being said, this is still a relatively fresh car. Things can always change.

    I like that!

    Thank you; the trial and error are all parts of the hot rod process!
     
  25. J.Ukrop
    Joined: Nov 10, 2008
    Posts: 2,817

    J.Ukrop
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    Sidebar 32: A-V8

    As you read this, I'm sitting at a wooden table in the food court at the Las Vegas airport. The sun is setting over the tarmac, and an army of slot machines blinks, whirrs and jingles over my left shoulder. I'm boarding my flight for Detroit soon, but I figured there's no time like the present to share what very well may be the biggest update of the build.

    On Saturday morning, David and I had a lofty but achievable goal: get the engine and trans in the frame to establish motor mount position. For the past two months, I've been collecting the big and small pieces to make this a reality. From the '48 flathead and early Ford trans to the motor mounts and rear bearing retainer hardware, no two items came from the same place. I went over my checklist time and time again to make sure I didn't forget anything.

    Although this is totally new territory to me, David has done this more times than he can count. As a result, he has a wide range of tips and tricks to help make the job easier. First, we put the frame on jackstands and I attached the trans to his homemade jack adaptor. IMG_0498.jpg
    Don't worry, I'll be swapping in a new throwout bearing before running it.
    IMG_0501.jpg
    Just seeing these pieces together gets me fired up.
    IMG_0528.jpg
    Initially, we tried to put the engine and trans in the frame separately. Soon thereafter, we concluded that we should mate them and drop them in as a complete assembly. I also removed the distributor, carb, belt and fuel pump.
    IMG_0526.jpg
    This gave me a good look at the rebuild tag. As far as I can tell, it was rebuilt in 9/1960 with a standard bore and .010 over...bearings?
    IMG_0503.jpg
    Also, this flaked off the carb. Looks pretty new to me. Maybe 1980s?
    IMG_0508.jpg
    I don't know about you, but this is my kind of Saturday.
     
  26. J.Ukrop
    Joined: Nov 10, 2008
    Posts: 2,817

    J.Ukrop
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    With the engine and trans together, we slowly lowered the driveline into the frame. IMG_0515.jpg
    What more can I say? It fits! After lunch, David mocked up the firewall and it really started looking like a hot rod. IMG_0518.jpg
    This is happening. Can you see it?
    IMG_0519.jpg
    A detail of the motor mounts, whose position will be finalized next time I'm there. IMG_0525.jpg
    Saturday was surreal. My pile of parts is taking shape. The to-do list has never been longer, and I have a lot of homework and parts hunting ahead. We're making progress on this Model A hot rod, and I couldn't be more excited.
     
  27. J.Ukrop
    Joined: Nov 10, 2008
    Posts: 2,817

    J.Ukrop
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    IMG_0533.jpg
    What are the chances that there were three—technically four, if you count my car—1930 Model A roadsters in the shop? Talk about a lineup!
     
  28. bchctybob
    Joined: Sep 18, 2011
    Posts: 5,245

    bchctybob
    Member

    Little mishaps and breakdowns happen when you drive old or home built cars. Each occurrence is an opportunity to sharpen your troubleshooting and problem solving skills. It helps you to know what tools and parts to carry with you. Kudos for being able to work your way out of this one. It’s these little adventures that will build the confidence to drive your car anywhere, anytime without the “breakdown anxiety” that keeps some hot rod owners close to home or not driving their cars at all. Besides, it makes for an interesting addition to the story when you talk about driving your car.
    One of my personal favorites; on a first date with a nice lady in my beater ‘29 pickup, driving in front of the theater when the flex plate hit a speed bump. Noisy and embarrassing. After the movie the engine turned over about half a revolution and the starter disengaged, not to engage again. I got out my big crescent wrench and a screwdriver, found the bent spot and straightened it right then and there. The car started right up, my date was impressed, and the rest of the night went very well.
    Really enjoy following your experiences with your roadster (s)..
     
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  29. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 17,209

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    Looking good man.
     
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  30. Joey, with an updraft vacuum pulls the gas uphill so to speak into the motor. With a full tank if you had fuel starvation there was a problem with your carb. On a downdraft fuel almost flows directly into the motor when the source is higher than the carb. Stand at the side of your car and look at it and think about how gravity works. Save your money for speed parts not pumps.
     
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