Ok we got the notorious death wobble last weekend in our 32 ,I can see why its called the death wobble ,we were only doing 30mph and less each time it happened. Probably only travelled 5 to 600mls since finished . We have other cars too. The Coker’s were out of round ,no surprise there. Changed to Michelin’s 185 x 80 x16, all thats available off the shelf down under. Made a hillbilly trammel set up , found we are talking inches of toe out not fraction, like 1”1/4..out . Ok i made an ass out of my self and i assumed the tie rod was the correct length from the PO. I rebuilt every thing else in the steering department. So will my hillbilly setup get me close to where i need to be?? The aluminium angle is the same length as a 550x16 is high .
Maybe it's digital picture distortion; but did you square the aluminum angles to the chassis first; otherwise the Ackerman will throw you shade when setting toe.
That'll work great! I do similar but directly onto the tire. I don't know where exactly the measurement should be taken on the circumference but I take mine about 3 inches off the floor, so we'll short of the horizontal centerline, but has always worked out well when I've been checked 'properly'. Chris
Here we go again..... forget ackermann. Ackermann always changes when you adjust the tone settings (unless you shim the steering arms)
When we raced Formula cars, we would build a box around car with fishing line the height of wheel center. Then measure to wheel rims. Car must be in center, equal distance from center of wheel hubs.
So in response to what I posted; you are basically saying the wheels don't have to be straight ahead when setting toe.
Technically the wheels aren't pointing straight ahead when there is toe-in.[or toe-out] Instead of trying to "save face" re -read what I wrote...........Forget Ackermann. The best method for a DIYer without a trammel bar is to centre-line the car with a string line underneath. We've done this at the track with 2 axle stands and some string [then measured outwards to a straight edge against the tyres] Ackermann is never part of the equation @dave agosti method above is very good and accurate [especially of formula Fords where both front and rear toe needs to be adjusted] And it works better when on the grass in the paddock at the track.[but you need 4 stands and more string ,plus invest more time in the initial set-up with measurements]
I check toe, with all 4 tires on the ground. After any changes in adjustment, I roll the vehicle back at least 15 feet, and back forward like amount, and re-check. That way, the the tires will have taken the set, they will have. I use this Manbee gauge from the 30's, setting it on zero while checking the front, then move it to the backside and read the scale.
That's the best tool I've ever seen for setting toe. I've never seen anything like that available. I will have to build one. The only setup is zeroing the gauge. Quick. Mr. Manbee had a great idea. Leave it to the old timers. Thanks for the pics.
I use the 3 string method, Center string to make / get body centered to frame , then square rear to frame , Then use outer strings to set toe. After toe set , I set 5-7 deg positive caster, ( some times more) To ride height setting on ground. When I inquired this 32 ,39 motor & trans , friction shocks ,None split wish bones & Original steering & none drop Axle , 40 Ford brakes & 32 rear .I swapped out for a drop axle & 50/50 16s wheels ,kept None split wish, I would get death wobble Slowing down Unexpectedly But not every time, 40ish & slower .( coming to a stop ) Check the complete front end & steering, tried a few things , still would get D-W occasionally, So I made a bolt On 1/2 od pan bar , No more D-W. This was 1st 32 I have had that was all pre war parts , Accept it had 50ish steel looking 15 s , 8 on rear 7 on front , ( Ugly 32 4 Wheel Dr looking) I should of put the Original restored spoke wheel & tires on to see if there was D-W ??
The quickest way to show you don't know what you are talking about on front end alignement is to post something about Ackerman to sound knowledgable. Sorry dude but the old auto shop instructor and long time front end man before that gives you an F on that.
You can waste a frigging bunch of time makeing some cute thing like that or you can do it as most old pros have been doing for the past 80 years. Jack each front tire a few inches off the ground. take a pencil and using something to steady your hand scribe a line around the center of the tread as either you or a helper gently spins the wheel. That compensates for any and all run out in the wheel and tire. Set the tires back on the ground and with a helper holding the other end of the tape to the line on the other tire up as far as you have a straight line get your measurement from the line on your side. Move to the front side and repeat the process making sure that both of you have the tape at the same height and at the same spot on your drawn line. figure out the difference plus or minus your around 1/9 toe in for old rear wheel drive rigs and adjust the tie rod accordingly. This is the way real front end men with old school equipment often still do it. the big pain in the butt is getting a helper to hold the tape in the right spot. Old man Cooper here in town did thousands of them that way over the years and he was the guy who folks who had taken their cars to fancy shops that couldn't make them drive right ended up having fix their cars.
^^^ Most of us here get your point , Its not Rocket science , (some here know that as well) There is Not to many vehicle's that you can run a tape Measure from side to side without interference, You can also block front of vehicle up spindle Close to ride height & close to spindle to load suspension , Pull wheels use straight edge across drum / rotor , plum bob & Mark floor , front & rear of spindle, & same on other side , Measure between two front marks, then two rear marks ,adjust toe accordingly.
I do the scribe thing too. But measure with a tool similar to the one shown by Marty. The bars on the end of the tool reach up to the middle of the tire. IT can be anything, tubing, angle iron Even wood. Just one end needs to be movable. woodworking squares and clamps work great. Set bars on the marks on back of tire. Remove and measure with you tape. Set bars on front of tire and measure. Compare two measure measurements. Or just move the bar from back to front with one bar set on the scribe mark and measure the difference from the other mark to the other bar. No wrestling with a tape under the car and no second set of hands needed. edited to clarify. I hope
Aka, stringing a car. We did that at the race tracks to ferret out a possibly bent suspension part after a crash.
A tire sidewall is generally not consistently true enough to measure anything , scribing the tread is acceptable , as is measuring off the rims , nowadays the spindle mount laser or rim mount is very accurate .
Death wabble,is a funny but ,but good description of a front end prob that happens on all types of frontend with one or more wrong things going on. . So I know there are a lot of threads about it. = just a few>https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/search/320286382/?q=death+wabble&o=relevance The old wife's tails about it an what did it are funny too in some cases,many fully love those,even when wrong. The fact is,there are a number of things,from one,too many combo's of things that do make it happen. The trick has always been to find prob's n fix,or cover it up with a "tierod to axle shock"> VW type damper. As you can tell from many other threads,good photos of all parts of front end help to spot things that are wrong. Back when I ran my own speedshop for over 40 years,I'm retired now for 20. When this showed up to be fixed,a close look over was a start. The most common thing on a straight axle front set up,was shackles were not even close to 45*> letting the front axle shift back n forth/side to side of frame. Next too that, was tire/rim/drum, dynamic balance was off. A good number other other things can be wrong,but tow is not #1 or even close to it,yes it still is need to be to be at least close to right. Tow by it's self will not be why. Have fun learning as you go,front end engineering is a big set of books. But front end BS is unlimited,and need for seeing through it,is all part of the learn.
Dana ,love the last sentence . AFA the damper thing goes , I don't believe you're " covering up" a problem , more like you're "controlling a condition " …..
First you should set the steering box to the high spot on worm. Turn the steering wheel lock to lock and make note of the number of turns. Next turn the wheel back exactly 1/2 the number on your lock to lock notes. That is the high spot on the worm gear and should put the front wheels straight ahead. If not, adjust the drag link. Now you can check the toe setting. Ford straight axle cars should take the measurement no higher than the bottom of the axle with the tires on the ground.. The standard practice is to measure toe between the the inside or outside of the fattest part of the tire casing. There is usually a smooth ring on the sidewall at that point. Be sure to check the wheel/tire for excessive run out before measuring. I just use an adjustable pole off a car washing brush and 2 -4 coffee cans for measuring. Lay the pole on the cans and snug it between the tires and lock it. Measure the length of the pole and write it down. Four cans, 2 front & 2 rear will let you check the other side without moving them. Adjust 1/2 the difference in measurements and check again 'till it's right. Roll the car back a few feet, then roll it back forward and re-check. Keep the wheels on the ground throughout this procedure. Preferred is 1/16" toe in for old Fords. Death wobble ? Check the wish bone ball for looseness first. Try reducing the caster a bit at a time until it quits.
Anybody else use those aluminum plates with the slots cut in them that you just lean up against the tires on each side? Yes if a wheel is bent it introduces some error. However they work pretty good and are cheap. And if you have the equipment like Marty Strode has, you could make them yourself. Look in any oval track catalog/online.
When I worked on light aircraft that had landing gear that needed alignment checking (new gear leg, new experimental airplane, etc) I'd cut 4 pieces of aluminum sheet metal of almost any available thickness from .020 to .063", larger than the tire footprint. I put grease between the plates and roll the car onto them. The grease plates allowed the suspension and steering to relax and not be affected by the existing toe setting. Pushing forward and backward never really eliminates the stress from tires pointing in different directions.
Toe plates are easy to make. Plywood, OSB, MDF, Melmine or MDF shelving. Cut to length and slot. With the help of a trash can, cinder block, or paint can, etc. you can do the job by yourself. Clean, clear edge to read off where the tape comes though the slot. For runout, take something solid to rest your marker on and ease your marker in toward the tire until it touches the high spot of the tire as you rotate it. Put the high spot at the top.
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