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Technical Why Does My Paint Look Like Drywall?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 4woody, Nov 16, 2021.

  1. 4woody
    Joined: Sep 4, 2002
    Posts: 2,110

    4woody
    Member

    Background info: This is my first time painting, and I'm working panel by panel under a 3-sided carport, so my expectations aren't high, but this is ridiculous. Some of my pieces come out fine, but then I get a couple with what looks like orange peel gone wild.

    IMG_0706.JPG IMG_0721.JPG IMG_0718.JPG IMG_0716.JPG
    It seriously looks like rolled/stippled paint on drywall with low-gloss lows and glossy highs; not standard garden-variety orange peel.

    Paint is "EZ-Poxy is a modern one-part polyurethane" https://www.pettitpaint.com/product...es/single-part-polyurethane/ez-poxy-easypoxy/ Note that in spite of the name it is not an epoxy, or even a 2-part paint, but a slow-drying enamel.

    All products used are from the same manufacturer, and used according to their instructions: High-build Primer sanded smooth to 220g, wiped down with their thinner. Paint thinned with their thinner~15%, and HVLP sprayed (Tried both a 1.4 and a 1.8 tip with similar results) on a dry, still, 70 degree day. It does dry in the normal amount of time.

    What do you think I'm doing wrong?
     
  2. 19Fordy
    Joined: May 17, 2003
    Posts: 8,025

    19Fordy
    Member

    220 grit is way too rough for applying finish coat. Should be 320 or 400 grit.
    Can you post a photo of what the surface looked like prior to spraying finish coat?
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2021
    dana barlow likes this.
  3. 19Fordy
    Joined: May 17, 2003
    Posts: 8,025

    19Fordy
    Member

    Watch this video.
     
  4. oldolds
    Joined: Oct 18, 2010
    Posts: 3,407

    oldolds
    Member

    That looks like your hardener was the problem. It was too old or the paint was mixed and not applied soon enough or it was the wrong hardener.
     
    loudbang and deathrowdave like this.

  5. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 3,883

    rusty valley
    Member

    If you have 3 coats on it you can wet sand it out. block it, 600,800,1000, 1500, buff
     
    A Boner likes this.
  6. It's orange peel. There are a bunch of different causes but basically the paint is not being atomized enough. You need to increase pressure, reduce the paint more, use a slower reducer.....
     
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  7. oldiron 440
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 3,299

    oldiron 440
    Member

    To me it looks like the paint was too thick, maybe a 25 to 35 percent reduction would be better. I'd recommend a slower reducer but I think one change at a time.
     
    Sporty45, loudbang and j hansen like this.
  8. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,933

    squirrel
    Member

    I'm pretty good at getting orange peel (usually because I end up painting stuff in the summer in AZ), and I've never been able to get it that rough! Might be a combination of things, including spraying technique, and temp/reducer/spray gun adjustments.

    I bet if you post some video of you painting, we could get a better idea what's going on.
     
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  9. 1ton
    Joined: Dec 3, 2010
    Posts: 687

    1ton
    Member

    Did you screen the paint mixture to remove any solids?
     
    Hnstray likes this.
  10. Looks like an industrial boat paint.
    The spraying instructions are vague. No spec on tip size. Says it’s 3 mills wet. That’s thick.
    It’s also designed to be brushed or rolled and over 220 grit scratches.That all suggests it’s very thick.
    The “thinner” listed in the tech sheet is vague.
    Temperature at spraying, the “thinner” used, gun tip, air pressure, distance and speed are all important.
    Automotive grade paints have detailed instructions for tip size, air pressure, distance, viscosity and specific temp “thinners”.
    An automotive paint can have 3-4 different temp range reducers and hardeners.
    This lets you mix the paint to fit the temp.
    Dries to fast usually means orange peel. Wrong tip and too thick will cause orange peel.
    Gun distance, air pressure and speed affect peel.
    Is this particular paint designed to flow?
    Have you ever sprayed it before?
    When doing a test panel for a new product you can figure out how it sprays. Make adjustments and figure out what’s needed.
    On my 1945 I phone, it appears to have been sprayed too thick. And maybe a product not designed for an automotive finish. Deck paint seems to mean it’s designed to have a rough finish.
    Did the gun struggle to push out the paint?
    What distance and air pressure? Gun used?
    Was it able to hold a “wet edge” while spraying.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2021
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  11. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 9,814

    BJR
    Member

    I would think that the paint was not thinned enough, and was thinned with too fast a thinner. You may have needed a slower thinner so it will dry slower and smooth out more. Having the paint too thick will keep it from atomizing correctly.
     
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  12. 4woody
    Joined: Sep 4, 2002
    Posts: 2,110

    4woody
    Member

    Thanks for your thoughts.

    To clarify a few points:
    The paint is a high quality marine paint suitable for use on metal with proper prep. I started with this because I planned to "Roll & Tip" ie. roller & brush the paint. This works fine for boats, of course, and has also been done successfully on cars.
    Having never sprayed with anything but a rattle can before this seemed like a simple way to paint my old pickup truck in my suburban driveway without getting over spray on the neighbors.

    This paint is one part. There is no "reducer", but they sell "spraying thinner" and "brushing thinner". I used the spraying thinner and got this result, but I have the brushing thinner which I assume is slower, so I can try that next.

    Paint is strained through cheese cloth before going in the paint cup, and there is one of those little removable filters in the inlet to the gun. 220 is the grit the company specs for sanding the primer before top coat, and the paint seems thick though I have no experience with auto paint.

    They don't offer a hardener for spraying this paint, but they do offer a "Performance Enhancer" for brushing/rolling.
    https://www.pettitpaint.com/product...rt-polyurethane/ez-poxy-performance-enhancer/ I assume they don't market it for spraying because it contains isocyanates.

    This paint is thick and goes tacky pretty fast, but then takes hours to get dry enough to handle. Similar to what I've read about old school, enamels used without hardener. It is thinner than latex house paint in the can. I'd compare its thickness to cream. Gun was 3-5 inches from the work. Pressure was 24psi at the gauge on the gun.

    I'd had a previous disaster where I over-thinned and got horrible runs, so maybe I was too shy with the thinner.

    This painting stuff is hard- I don't know how you guys do it! I appreciate everyone's attempts to help!!
     
  13. I chunk those filters in the gun.
    They choke stuff down in my opinion.
    Going to need to experiment with a viscosity that works. Air pressures as well.
    Practice will eat materials but worth it.
     
    SS327 likes this.
  14. That additive says it increases hardness and gloss.speeds up drying
    Sounds like a hardener to me
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2021
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  15. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 3,883

    rusty valley
    Member

    I also noticed its an epoxy product, is that what your paint is?
     
  16. 4woody
    Joined: Sep 4, 2002
    Posts: 2,110

    4woody
    Member

    No- that is the product name, but no epoxy in what I'm using. It is polyurethane enamel.

    IIRC they used to use the name for a completely different product.
     
  17. spanners
    Joined: Feb 24, 2009
    Posts: 2,073

    spanners
    Member

    Tradesman spraypainter/panelbeater. It looks like enamel without enough thinner. I start at 20% thinner and test spray. If not happy add a slurp more thinner. Spray a light coat as a tacky coat, wait a few minutes and then another fuller coat.
     
  18. donsz
    Joined: Nov 23, 2010
    Posts: 242

    donsz
    Member

    I've done some painting, but nowhere the quality of many of the forum members. However, from the pictures, your results look very similar to my intitial attempts. There are a lot of variables when it comes to spraying a vehicle, so I will just relate what happened (or better put what I did) to me. It generally reflects the prior responses.
    1. I used an HVLP turbine system and got exactly the results you did. From the little I know, turbine systems require some finese for painting cars. Tip size and thinner seem to to critical. The manufacturer's rep said it should work well. They recommended at 30% greater reducer than recommended by the paint manufacturer. But after two attempts I still couldn't get consistently good results (like you I ran into blotches or runs).
    2. Then I went to a HVLP gun designed for use with my with my compresser, taking advantge of a little higher pressure to the gun. That was a significant improvement, it seemed I could atomize the spray way better.
    3. Next I tried a regular high pressure gun and got even better results. I was careful as to tip size and reducer (for the most part I could use the manufacturere's recommendations with a little modification).

    In summary, for me as a novice, a regular gun or a HVLP designed for use with my regular compressor seemed to atomize the spray to the point where I could lay it on with control and consistency. With the turbine system I was getting "blotchy" results especially if I tried to get into crevices. Now, I only use the turbine sytstem for household jobs, especially if I can lay the piece flat. Again I am far from what I would consider even an average painter, but I thought possibly there might be a nugget from my experience that may help.
    don
     
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  19. Turbines produce a ton of heat so the air you are spraying with is hot and dries the paint before it hits the surface so you need to either cool the air or use a much slower reducers.
     
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  20. 427 sleeper
    Joined: Mar 8, 2017
    Posts: 2,865

    427 sleeper
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Seeing that the product is actually designed to be brushed on, have you tried painting a piece with a brush or a short knapped roller, or even a foam roller to see how it turns out? It doesn't seem like spraying it through an automotive style spray gun is going to work. An airless sprayer, maybe...
     
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  21. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 9,814

    BJR
    Member

    Crank up your air pressure to 35 lbs at the gun, and thin the paint some more.
     
    4woody likes this.
  22. hotrodjack33
    Joined: Aug 19, 2019
    Posts: 4,128

    hotrodjack33
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I was thinking the same thing. I've used an airless sprayer to apply oil base enamel (reduced about 25%) to fences and foundations with great results.
     
    427 sleeper likes this.
  23. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 4,040

    gene-koning
    Member

    I suspect its going to be at least a week before you will be able to sand it, maybe longer. If you try to sand it too early, it will really screw up the paint and will load up the sand paper really fast.

    I'd probably start with 400 wet or dry, keep it wet, on a sanding block, gently. If the paint starts to ball up, its not dry yet, wait another few days.
     
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  24. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 9,814

    BJR
    Member

    By the way, my drywall comes out much smoother than your paint.:eek:
     
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  25. RodStRace
    Joined: Dec 7, 2007
    Posts: 3,904

    RodStRace
    Member

    That paint appears to have
    1. Come out of the gun in big drops, not a fine mist. -> thin it more and test.
    2. Set up (did not 'flow') almost on contact. -> thin it more and test.
    You mention "It is thinner than latex house paint in the can. I'd compare its thickness to cream."
    If you have a can of spray paint you don't mind wasting some of, shake it up, pop the cap and spray the paint into the cap for 10-30 seconds. It should be the thickness of what you want out of the gun, if you can spray paint with decent results out of spray cans.
    EDIT: you are not going to like hearing this, but you need to sand all that smooth (wait at least a week for drying, like Gene says) before re-shooting. If you try to 'bury' that texture and sand later, it WILL be splotchy!
    From their own info sheet
    " • Applying two or more coats per day or excessively heavy films (greater than 4 wet mils) will lead to insufficient, thorough drying of the paint and will result in soft paint films. "
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2021
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  26. Onemansjunk
    Joined: Nov 30, 2008
    Posts: 318

    Onemansjunk
    Member
    from Modesto,CA

    What ever happened...it’s perfect for painting the underside of a vehicle...or inside the trunk!
     
  27. Ohhh . . . well now, that's just braggin' . . .
    :rolleyes:
     
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  28. buick bill
    Joined: Dec 18, 2008
    Posts: 856

    buick bill
    Member
    from yreka;ca

    that paint needs to be thinned
     
    RodStRace likes this.
  29. 4woody
    Joined: Sep 4, 2002
    Posts: 2,110

    4woody
    Member

    So... "Thin the paint more" was good advice, as was increasing the PSI.

    After sanding with 220 I had another go at it.
    I thinned the paint 20% with the slow "Brushing" thinner, and added 3% Penetrol. Sprayed @ 28psi with a 1.4 tip.

    I sprayed maybe a square foot of the fender. At first it looked good: wet & smooth, but after a minute or two curtain runs started to form. I wiped it all off and started again after turning the fluid flow down a turn, and pulling the gun back to ~6 inches from the work. After allowing time for runs to develop- but they didn't happen this time- I went on painting. Results much better this time. No one will mistake me for a pro- still some orange peel, and a small run or two- but I can work with this result. The pictures actually look worse that it does in person. I'll probably just give them a scuff with a ScotchBright and another coat.

    Moral of the story: Don't be shy with the thinned, and don't hurry the test panel.

    IMG_0738.JPG IMG_0737.JPG IMG_0736.JPG
     
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  30. It looks like you're gaining on it! After the paint's had a chance to fully dry, with a bit of wet sanding, some compound and some elbow grease you could end up with a "keeper". That doesn't appear to be metallic so it should be easier to do a little spotting after the fact, if necessary.
    :cool:
     
    RodStRace likes this.

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