My new to me Model A arrived yesterday and just spent an hour or so trying to get it to start. Its my 1st somewhat standard car so please be gentle. This is the procedure I have used. Fuel on (Tap in vertical position) GAV at 5pm after fully closing it initially. Advance lever all the way up. Throttle lever at approx 230pm Choke out. Hit starter. Car has been converted to 12V and is spinning over well but no hint of wanting to start, except one little burp. Pulled plugs and they were black and wet so cleaned them thoughly and put them back in. Lightly sanded the copper strips where they connect between distributior and plugs. Car has sat 6 months since last being started and previously ran well based on what the seller told me and videos which I have NO reason to doubt. What am I doing wrong or what should I start checking? On my own so checking spark conventionally is a little difficult particularly as it still runs the copper strips instead of plug wires. Thanks in advance. Pete __________________
I'm no help with the mechanics but Congrats on your new toy...that's pretty darned exciting I'll bet...
Indeed mate, Im sure its something really simple as its a solid car. Just want to get it sorted if I can before the 34 arrives Wednesday as once that's here I may lose interest in the A
GAV 1/4 turn open choke after initial cranking with it closed. try to side step and open throttle while cranking should start if it has spark
if the ammeter is bad it interrupts the ignition , the ammeter feeds the fire , Doe's it have a POPOUT ignition switch ? Ballast Resistor before the Coil ? with key on switch popped out there should be 8.4 volts to the positive side of the coil . if you have fire at the coil but none at the points , could be a bad condenser. as soon as it starts , you gotta slam the choke , they flood easy
Good call on the pop out switch ^^^, I have to turn the key, then pull mine out with the key, then you get spark. I would also check that its dry in the distributor cap. maybe moisture from shipping
Is the rotor spinning? Could have a broken gear. If you don't have spark I would file points and possibly replace condenser.
Thanks all that have helped so far. Was able to get my wife to come over and help this afternoon and its spark issue. Earthed out the coil wire (held it near a head bolt) and the spark was really weak and was rarely there. Same result with the points and no spark at a spark plug. Have 12v at the coil and the top of the distributor (Its been converted to 12V) Have sanded the points and they look clean. All electrical connections are tight. Pics below are what I am working with. You'll see in the 1st pic there is an electrical connector but no wire to it but it doesnt look like there has been one for a LONG time and I know 6 months ago this was running like a champ. It actually appears to be holding something in place? For the no spark issue could it be the condensor as suggested? If so I sure hope I ordered one but cant recall and wont know until Wednesady when the rest of my stuff arrives.
I think your spark advance is disconnected, an electrical guy will explain things. This is how a stock one looks, but the condenser, is relocated.
You are right re the advance/retard linkage The37kid ! Its not connected. Just gone back through my emails with the seller and its apparently a Model B dizzy. Did a bit of reading they are apparently auto advance?
I,ve had at least a dozen stock model A,s in the last 40 years , whats GAV short for ? I know that one rod can turn to adjust the carb needle .
I intermittently had this problem with the same symptoms. The wires connected to my key switch were working themselves into a position where the bare terminals could contact the gas tank. It would start with the dash removed, and immediately after I reinstalled it, but over time start doing it again. Could be many other things too but that’s an easy one to check.
That is a so called "modern" points set up for the A. They went through the job of converting Petes car to 12volt but not updating the ignition. Come spring mine is getting a complete tune-up. with regular spark plug wires instead of the original blade type. It already had the "modern" points and condenser. Replacements are in order for them too.
Pete, It does look like a B dizzy but there are a few things that might give you a weak spark. First keep in mind that Henry stock wiring had the + terminal on the coil 'hot' all the time. The 'ignition switch' provided a ground path. I have no idea how the PO wired the conversion, it kind of looks like the way the ignition is wired, but i can't be sure. That is something to check along with coil polarity. Ballast resistor; if the coil has (nominal) 3 or more ohm resistance on the primary side of the coil, it doesn't need an external ballast resistor. If it has 1.5 ohms or less, it does. A ballast resistor on a 3 ohm coil will cause a weak spark. Bypassing it will allow you to troubleshoot and see if you have a stronger spark. The correct condenser has a wire lead that in part of the condenser and goes to the terminal on the dizzy. The condenser is suspect on your set up. Disconnecting temporarily will allow you to troubleshoot. I'd start there. I know you were on the hunt for a B condenser. I have a complete, rebuilt B dizzy, with a good condenser and we can talk if you are interested PM me. Good luck
I also want to point out that @tb33anda3rd had a good point early on: How old is this fuel? Did you drain and replace? If it's the fuel that came with the car, sounds like its's 6 months old at minimum, probably more. If the car came out of the US, it's likely ethanol blend. That shit is done in 6 months. So first thing, I would drain it and put fresh gas in it.
I think that there is a reason for the weak spark. Reason for ballast resistor is to give better spark during starting. Basicly the coil is designed to work around 8V so as engine running the resistor will drop the voltage to coil. But during starting there should be voltage supply straight from battery, cause voltage will drop anyway because the starter is running. For "modern" cars that supply is taken from starter relay, but cause model A has mechanical switch for the starter, i have used separate switch for the full voltage. But you need to remember turn the switch off after engine start, cause the coil won't last too long with 12V. In other words, coil voltage supply straight from battery during starting and through the resistor during running. You can easily check if my theory is right. Just connect the wire marked blue to coil terminal marked red. Then you should have better spark. But if engine start, don't let it run more than around 30 seconds, other wise you will blow up your coil cause full 12V supply.
I ran a 6 volt coil on direct 12 volts for about 8 months (for probably an average of 2 hours every day) without issue until I accidentally left the ignition switch on overnight and popped the coil. I agree they will burn up eventually but you are talking over months or years, not minutes... In any case I agree on bypassing the ballast resistor for the moment, it isn't doing anything right now but sucking power. Ignition coils are cheap, you might swing by a parts store tomorrow and get a generic 12v internal resistor coil for peace of mind. Takes 5 minutes to swap out and it never hurts to have a spare even if that winds up not being the problem.
When I bought mine, it had been sitting over a year. I highly suggest looking at You Tube for help also. I watched every video I could find on troubleshooting Model A’s and learned a lot. I was able to trouble shoot mine, understood the ignition and electrical system and got it to run great. Check it out.
Yes i admit that 30 seconds running time with full 12V to the coil is really on safe side. But my experience about the topic is from days i was young and stupid. My friends -68 Falcon with 289 had broken resistor , so we supply full 12V to the coil and were happy cause it ran. And it ran pretty good, about 30 miles... Then coil failed. Long way walk home, but lesson learned
@panhead_pete - just how difficult would it be to pick up a 12 volt round points ignition coil at the average auto parts store? "Not too common" or "Unobtanium"?
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