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Technical Pedal Assembly

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by roddering, Oct 17, 2021.

  1. roddering
    Joined: Feb 18, 2008
    Posts: 244

    roddering
    Member
    from Arizona

    So, technology is catching up with car building.
    What I am wondering is what after-market brake systems y'all are using for 27-34 cars?
    Stock is nice, however I want to be able to stop and avoid an accident.
    What I see is the standard firewall mount.
    Then there is the under floor systems with power boosters.
    brakes.3.jpg
    Now I see the 90 degree under dash units.
    brakes.2.jpg
    Options and opinions welcome!
     
  2. No after market. Fab an under floor pedal mount or use one of Henrys. Early Frod brakes, maybe with a Buick update and match the NON power MC to the WC sizes. Has stopped hotrods for decades
     
    2OLD2FAST likes this.
  3. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 5,217

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    For quite literally decades , 2 ton +- cars & trucks relied on non power assist , single reservoir master cylinder DRUM brakes . For the most part , we seemed to be able to move about without running over each other .
     
    rusty valley and Tman like this.
  4. miker98038
    Joined: Jan 24, 2011
    Posts: 1,143

    miker98038
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I had one of those under dash 90* units. It’s gone and replaced with a firewall mount, no booster. I’ll never own another unit where I can’t get to the master cylinder to check it.
     

  5. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 14,802

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Never made sense to me unless you were going to have a lid on your cowl.
     
    Atwater Mike likes this.
  6. sloppy jalopies
    Joined: Jun 29, 2015
    Posts: 5,256

    sloppy jalopies
    Member

    i use the stock style pedal, it pulls doesn't push...
    i run a steel rod [46"] [red] to a belcrank that changes pull to push...
    i drill 4 holes in the belcrank so i can change mechanical advantage if wanted...
    this also raises the master/booster so you don't need residual valves...
    ran this on my last 4 hotrods...
    adding fluid is from the trunk not a trap door under the carpet...
    white paint is so if i brake down a little bit of light reflects more...

    DSCN0602 (1).JPG
     
    WalkerMD, Jibs and Budget36 like this.
  7. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,861

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    All I am going to say is that a lot of "my brakes don't work right" issues seem to start with those little aftermarket boosters for some reason. The one I am trying to help figure out now either has too small of bore on the master cylinder or the arm that pushes the push rod is too short and doesn't give the pushrod enough travel.
    I ran my 48 for years with a 68 Chevy C-10 master cylinder on a bracket that my buddy and I built to fasten it to the stock bracket on the frame. That part doesn't help much but the brakes worked good even though I probably should have had 10 lb residual valves. The only issue was the brakes got mushy if you let the truck set for several weeks. That is what residual valves do, they keep pressure in the line and keep the cups pushed out against the cylinder or caliper piston.

    To me the ugliest thing on any hot rod or custom that didn't come with firewall mount pedals from the factory is a big ugly master cylinder and booster hanging right in the way of the view of the engine you put so much work into detailing it.
     
  8. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 13,174

    Budget36
    Member

    Now that’s a slick idea and something I’ve never seen before
     
  9. The MC doesn't know or care whether it is boosted by a vacuum booster or mechanical leverage. I adapted a '52-'56 Ford car hanging pedal assembly to my '38 Ford pickup. The MC is '70s midsize GM as are the front disc brakes and drum rears. No booster, but the pedal arm is long enough to give the leverage needed.
     
  10. Every car I've ever built (road) has had a copy of the Wilwood dual master set up. Buddy spent the bucks years ago for one of their assemblies and I loosely copied it. Dual masters to one pedal. Floor, firewall, remote reservoirs. I put it where it works best for me. If it's a factory setup, I go with what the factory provided. Never felt the need to re-invent the wheel there. If I'm changing the factory setup because of fitment issues, then my Wilwood copy gets the nod.
     
  11. On my T builds I have always used the 90* non power brakes.
    The resavor was easy to access through the gas tank door. I'm building a 26 tub and someone filled the opening . Not sure what I'm going to do.
    One benefit of these systems is you can move the unit side ways and place the brake pedal where it's convenient.
     
    roddering likes this.
  12. roddering
    Joined: Feb 18, 2008
    Posts: 244

    roddering
    Member
    from Arizona

    Great feedback. Lots to think about.
    Keep 'em coming!
     
  13. I designed and built one for my AVATAR. I am happy the way it came out. The leverage matches the early Ford master cylinder.

    Charlie Stephens[/ATTACH] Card1 032.jpg Card1 029.jpg
     
    roddering likes this.
  14. The total unit you posted the photo of for under floor and booster makes the Booster a skid plate. They all hang to low for most anything being built today. I say that because the Booster hangs below all Frame rails I've seen them in. I could say a lot more but none of it has a positive spin. Do something with the pedals you have and make them work.
     
  15. dmar836
    Joined: Oct 23, 2018
    Posts: 357

    dmar836
    Member

    Glad you are interested in info rather than defending a point. I keep learning from this as well. I have read threads with responses like, "Would you trust your family to - insert any subject - brakes, steering, suspension, wheels, tires, frame, exhaust, etc.? No thanks!" Or, "Just take it to a pro or bolt on another new catalog item and be done." It's almost nauseating. I ask myself when is the last time a properly built car lost brakes, broke the frame, lost steering, or developed deadly CO levels, etc. causing an accident that killed a family? Yet modern cars crash every day with no mechanical failure.
    Properly built is the key. Brain failure either while fabricating or while driving a Prius can have the same effect.
    What's wrong with your current brakes?
     
    roddering and WalkerMD like this.
  16. hemihotrod66
    Joined: May 5, 2019
    Posts: 968

    hemihotrod66
    Member

    Pete and Jakes makes some pretty nice units... Have one in my 34 tudor...
     
  17. 19Eddy30
    Joined: Mar 27, 2011
    Posts: 2,314

    19Eddy30
    Member
    from VA

    Op first pic ( Universal 28-34) is a generic universal Kit ,Modification required, model "A" frame runs right under center of front seat , 32-34 frame rail out under sub rail /rocker panel. I use a tubular K member, ( tight on 32 to mount things) The economy 28-34 brake arm kit does not have correct bends & angles , I copied P-Js brake arm , I also mount vett style master Cylinder under vehicle,
    I drill 1/8 holes threw the front / rear divider wall about 1/2 inch down from top.
    Then drill /tap a 1/4 pipe on the side of
    M C , close to top
    ( not the M-C Cover) use a # 4 A&N with ptfe line to a single small aluminum reservoir , mount in desired location, ( if you desire you can even mount in the trunk) .
    I also , if needed make my own push rods. ( power or non ) On a model A , the M-C is right under the 1st sub rail cross member .
    I have not had to use
    ""residual valves"" mine are Drag & street driven.
    Weld & some fabrication skills are required when building , Rarely you will find nowadays something that just bolts on with no modifications,
    Especially universal economy parts.

    Up to builder & thinking where you would like the M-C placed , Out in front of Radiator or in back etc.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2021
    roddering likes this.
  18. I always have to shake my head when ever I hear this, dual reservoir master cylinders are designed to work in tandem. Meaning both front and rear must be free of air and leaks for the system to work. Think about it you don't get a pedal until air is out of the front and rear.

    Crack a bleeder on a dual reservoir system drive to the end of your driveway step on the brake and tell me if you stop, yes you can pump the pedal and get enough pedal to stop at 5 M.P.H. but in the event of a catastrophic failure at highway speed do you really think that you would have time or the reaction to pump the pedal?


    Mike Mahaney at Lebanon Valley speedway lost a left rear brake line and could not stop, these cars run two master cylinders on for the front one for the rear.

    Click Here video

    I am not saying not to do it but dual masters are not the god send everyone thinks they are.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2021
    dmar836 likes this.
  19. sloppy jalopies
    Joined: Jun 29, 2015
    Posts: 5,256

    sloppy jalopies
    Member

    no sir, my booster is not even close to the frame rail bottom... i built it to be safe... course i worked with a bunch of tool makers for any questions i had...
     
  20. I was commenting about this photo, not the photo of your Chassis.[​IMG]
     
  21. sloppy jalopies
    Joined: Jun 29, 2015
    Posts: 5,256

    sloppy jalopies
    Member

    sorry, p+b thought you meant mine... cool.
     
  22. krylon32
    Joined: Jan 29, 2006
    Posts: 9,397

    krylon32
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Nebraska
    1. Central Nebraska H.A.M.B.

    I have used 100's of P&J pedal assembly's over the years in my chassis business with no problems.
     
    X38 and Pist-n-Broke like this.
  23. roddering
    Joined: Feb 18, 2008
    Posts: 244

    roddering
    Member
    from Arizona

    Sorry, however I disagree. They may sit slightly below the frame, but so do the rear suspension bars, oil pan, trans pan and rear end housing!
     
    19Eddy30 likes this.
  24. roddering
    Joined: Feb 18, 2008
    Posts: 244

    roddering
    Member
    from Arizona

    I agree, where else to learn new things than from the many skilled and experienced members? As far as current brakes - don't have any! I bought a project car and am in the process of building. The brake pedal has always been a difficult decision for me. Everything else, welding, wiring, fabricating - NO PROBLEM. Figure out the pedal and don't cut the floor to hell - ISSUE.
     
  25. 19Eddy30
    Joined: Mar 27, 2011
    Posts: 2,314

    19Eddy30
    Member
    from VA

    ^^x2
    People new to hobby or was not shown/Thought how to think or work task out , buy a part like the OP 1st pic ,(28-34) that not a bolt in like advertised,
    ""Yes can be made to work correct with many modifications " Items Not a safe part /Item. Do Not have many Tools / Equipment or access to ,they get frustrated & project comes to a holt/ sold.
    What really gets me when Parts advertised the Phrase,

    "" Made / Exact Like Original ""
    Its False advertising!!
     

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