I have a 1985 A727 on a 318, all stock except a Locar kick down cable. Everything seems good except a hard shift into 2nd gear. All shift points are good, Fluid levels are good, Changed fluid within the last 1000 miles. Kickdown to second works as it should. What should I check or look at for a hard 1st to 2nd shift? Can someone offer advise? Yes I did search a lot but no responses fit this scenario.
it is a Hard shift as in an abrupt hit, not slipping into gear. My wife complains about it. I've tolerated it. I'm just happy to have my 46 Dodge truck on the road. Downshifts are barely noticeable. David
I've never been much good at getting a TF to shift smoothly into second....but what I'd be looking at is the length of the arm that the cable attaches to, at the carb. The TV lever on the transmission is the only thing that provides any info to the valve body about how hard it needs to shift. If you're pulling the cable too far at light throttle, it will think it's got more throttle, and will shift more firmly. At least that's my understanding of it. And will give you something to experiment with.
Getting pressure readings off of the governor, pump and front band apply circuit would tell you everything about what is wrong. Worn governor. Out of adjustment throttle pressure linkage. Valve body separator plate worn where the check balls seat. A factory shop manual can help you narrow it down.
KampDavid, It may be that someone put a BM shift kit in it or installed the rod to block the accumulator. or both. If you are bored and want to read how it all works, this is pretty good book for entertainment and enlightenment about 727 and 904 transmissions. Tom
If your shift points are correct, the throttle linkage is probably pretty close. Torqueflites don't normally have a hard 1-2 shift unless someone has been in the valve body. The 1 -2 shift firmness is controlled by the accumulator, the shuttle valve and the 1-2 shift control valve. Number 6 check ball is also in the circuit. If that check ball was left out shifts would be very abrupt.
Jaracer I believe you see my issue. if I let up on the gas a bit when I feel it is going to shift is does have a smooth transition. but normal acceleration it does slam into 2nd. can the accumulator, shuttle valve or 1-2 shift control lever be checked? I called one transmission shop he said it was not worth the time to troubleshoot it because of Labor rates and quoted me $1500 rebuild, another shop informed me that they dont work on such old transmissions. the next place asked me to call them in the winter and he may have time to look at it. I am willing to do it myself with guidance. if I open it up I will get the sa394 book as VOETOM recommended.
Interesting; so it appears to be affected by throttle pressure. That pretty much tells me #6 check valve is in place. The shuttle valve balances throttle and governor pressure. The 1-2 shift control valve modifies throttle pressure and sends the modified pressure to the accumulator to help cushion the 1-2 shift. It would probably be worth dropping the valve body and checking the action of both valves. Is it possible someone put a shift kit in the valve body? If you elect to drop the valve body be careful on disassembly. When I taught transmission repair, we had some boards with grooves cut in them so we could keep track of the valves and springs during disassembly. Valves should move freely in their bores. The bores can be dressed with fine emery. If you have any nicks in valves, be very careful dressing them down so you don't round the edges of the lands. The valve body needs to be spotlessly clean. Look for damaged check ball holes in the separator plate. Torque the valve body to case bolts to spec. Also, if drop pan and/or valve body, be sure and adjust the rear band.
a 727 behind a 318 doesn't sound stock. not that many 727's with the small block bolt pattern out there and the one's i know of all came behind 340's. if you don't know history asume it has a shift kit and if not 1200.to 1500 is about right for any tranny rebuild by a shop
they came in the trucks as well, I have one behind the 360 in my Fargo and a couple others laying around.
Before you drop the valve body, you should adjust the intermediate band. Another thought, an 85 Torqueflite would have a lock-up convertor. It shouldn't lock up at really low speeds, but it could. That might make a harsh 1-2 shift. Can you feel the point that the convertor locks up? It should be in the mid 30 mph range.
Not completely correct. My dad had a '75 Plymouth Grand Fury 360 2bbl with a 727. A lot of patrol cars and government cars had small blocks with 727's. As for the OP's problem, what about a blocked accumulator, as you would do with some shift kits??
i knew about the 360's with the 727 bought a new dodge truck in 79 with 360-727 but the op say's his is a 318 not 360. i just can't recall seeing a STOCK 318 -727
The Engine and Transmission are from an 86 D150 that was a company delivery truck. the truck was wrecked in the snow and totaled. it had about 67,000 miles on it. I bought it all and put in my 1946 WF Dodge Truck. It did sit unused on the garage floor for 4 years while building my 46. I changed Fluid and Filter and Speedometer gear. after sitting for two weeks it does take about 15 seconds to move, but after a few days no issues with that only is over 2 weeks sitting. I don't feel they would have put a kit in it, but its possible. JARACER Please educate me on how I would know about the lockup converter. and what or how to check what your asking. David
If anyone has a used but good Manual quoted by voetom for the 904-727 by Tom Hand, to step me thru a rebuild I will do the rebuild this winter. David
I had a 1968 Plymouth fury that had the 318/w/727 T.F. and a Dana 271 rear diff. It was a pig on take off,but that ole boat would get 22 miles to the gallon on the highway. For a quick test ,take the throttle cable/ pressure off. Warmed up and see what happens,,,does it still shift hard,not at all or shift easy? Any 727 that I have ran that had to warm up before it worked had clogged filters.
Well the lock-up convertors started in about 78 so an 86 should have one. When the convertor locks up, it kind of feels like a gear change. It feels like a standard transmission car. It's easy to see if you have a tachometer. Rpm drops at a steady speed. If you get on the throttle pretty hard in high gear without going to the floor you should be able to feel the torque convertor un-lock. The 15 seconds to move is due to convertor drain back. Every Mopar I've had with a 727 or 904 had some convertor drain back after setting. If it only happens after setting 2 weeks, it is quite normal.
Hey Tom , Thanks for sharing. I may need this info. Im going to get a reportedly ‘rebuilt’ 904. I have no idea what Im getting into. IS there any way telling if a trans is rebuilt ??
We always called slow to move in the "morning sickness". Just let it warm up in neutral a few seconds to refill the convertor, it should move pretty quick after that. As for a 318/727 I have seen it many times. As a matter of fact at one of my first jobs, the road service truck was an old Sunbeam bread truck. It had a slant six with a 727. Gene.
Alphabet Soup reminded me of something; the 727 and 904 have no convertor circuit in Park. You have to move to neutral to get the convertor to fill. Back in the 70's I worked on some State of Illinois police cars. They had a habit of idling them for long periods in the summer in park. Since there is no convertor circuit in park, the fluid would overheat and burn. Shortly after this the transmission would fail. This was done even though there was a plate on the dash that instructed to place the trans in neutral for long idle periods. There was even a hand throttle to bring the rpm up for long idles.
It all makes sense now! Working at a station 40 years ago, the mechanic told me how to check fluid in the Dodges “drive, reverse a few times then neutral” I never asked why then, just did as I was told.
Just add, I pulled 360 from a late 70’s small MH with a 727 and a 318 from an early 70’s MH (another small one) with a 727.
your probably right if the 3 speed 727 lasted till 92 i wouldn't know anything about it, in my world the last mopar made was 1969 after that just government smog machines were made that i had no interest in
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