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Help, Black & Decker Valve Grinder

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by ArizonaBill, Dec 4, 2011.

  1. ArizonaBill
    Joined: Aug 29, 2010
    Posts: 72

    ArizonaBill
    Member
    from Arizona

    Hey All...

    I have been cleaning out Dad's tool shed, He had a Black & Decker 11/16" super-service valve refacer type T, It is very complete with a bottom cabinet full of stones and other stuff, So here is where i could use some help, There are no manuals with it.... i need to know where to find an instruction Manual for this unit so i can learn how to use it. or someone can stop by and show me how to use it over a brew:D i learn much better that way.

    Thanks
     
    Deuces likes this.
  2. JohnEvans
    Joined: Apr 13, 2008
    Posts: 4,883

    JohnEvans
    Member
    from Phoenix AZ

    Arizona is a big state ! A little closer area might help.
     
  3. ArizonaBill
    Joined: Aug 29, 2010
    Posts: 72

    ArizonaBill
    Member
    from Arizona

    Oh yeah, NW Tucson. Ina and I-10 area
     
  4. Can't help with a manual for it but it wouldn't hurt to post some pictures of it. Can't say I've ever seen a B&D setup before but it could likely operate like a Sioux or a Kwik-Way. Is it just a valve refacer or do you have a seat grinder as well?
     

  5. Yes! Please post pictures. I recently got a pilot shaft for one of these and I'd like to know what the rest of the setup looks like.
     
  6. Triggerman
    Joined: Nov 18, 2006
    Posts: 578

    Triggerman
    Member
    from NorCal

    If I was closer I'd show you how. I have a B&D valve refacer and it's pretty easy to operate. Make sure the lubricate pump works before you try to grind anything.
     
  7. ArizonaBill
    Joined: Aug 29, 2010
    Posts: 72

    ArizonaBill
    Member
    from Arizona

    it has everything.... drill looking thing to regrind the seats, spring compressor, stone dresser stand, lots of small and big stones and some stems that screw into the guides, i guess to do the seat gringing with. some stuff i'm still trying to figure out what it is. One thing i am sure they did not use is a swamp cooler pump and a coffee can for the coolant!

    pic's after i clean it up....
     
  8. JohnEvans
    Joined: Apr 13, 2008
    Posts: 4,883

    JohnEvans
    Member
    from Phoenix AZ

    Yep pictures would help. The drill motor thing and stones etc are for doing the valve seats. The "valve" refacer is a separate machine. If you were in the Phoenix area I could show you how it all works.
     
  9. ArizonaBill
    Joined: Aug 29, 2010
    Posts: 72

    ArizonaBill
    Member
    from Arizona

    here is a pic...

    [​IMG]
     
  10. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,222

    F&J
    Member

    That's 40s if not a bit earlier. It has the fixture and stone for grinding the valve stem tips, too.

    that big knob between the stones at top, should be the coolant control I think.
     
  11. Willy301
    Joined: Nov 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,426

    Willy301
    Member

    That is very similar to one I just sold, except mine did not have the seat cutters or the cabinet. I only sold it because my friend would use it more than I ever did, and I still have access to it anytime I need it.
     
  12. grabrr
    Joined: Nov 9, 2010
    Posts: 129

    grabrr
    Member

    Wow, that must be from when they made real tools.
     
  13. AlbuqF-1
    Joined: Mar 2, 2006
    Posts: 909

    AlbuqF-1
    Member
    from NM

  14. ArizonaBill
    Joined: Aug 29, 2010
    Posts: 72

    ArizonaBill
    Member
    from Arizona

  15. BOBCRMAN
    Joined: Nov 10, 2005
    Posts: 846

    BOBCRMAN
    Member
    from Holly

    Ancient stuff. I quit using VanDorn/Black&Decker stuf back in the seventies. When they decided to abandon existing service parts and market K-mart stuff.. Got so bad they had to change name to DeWalt to sell decent tools.

    Ebay still offers shop manuals for the stuf. www.goodson.com also has some stones/pilots/drivers.. It is oddball to everything else used today..
     
  16. I have one of those too and need some parts (the fiber gears that turn the valve)...any ideas?
     
  17. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,861

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    One of my running buddies has one that is about the same age that I use once in a while.

    There should be a pump and reservoir of sorts for coolant for the valve facing machine. You can probably buy a jug of soluble oil at Napa and mix it per directions.

    Be damned careful when you use the diamond nibs (screw with diamond on end) to dress the stones as it is real easy to knock the diamond out and ruin it and they run right at 40.00 each. Go gentle when you dress the stones.

    It looks like you might be due for a new stone on the valve facing side. The other side is to dress and trim the stems.
     
  18. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 23,752

    Deuces

    That there is a classic.... :D
     
  19. The pilot shafts for the refacing stones should just press into the guide with a tension fit. There should be a removeable T-handle that fits on one end of the pilot. If you've got something that looks like it would thread into the guide you may have some knurling tools. Kind of a funny looking tap affair. Did you also find any reamers about the same diameter? These would be used to finish size the guides after knurling.

    When you clean it up, don't get too carried away. Fight the urge to make it look brand new. It's standing pretty proud just the way it is. :D
     
  20. MeanGene427
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Posts: 2,307

    MeanGene427
    Member
    from Napa

    I have a newer version of that one, haven't used it as it needs a new belt and my big Sioux is working fine
     
  21. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 24,523

    Roothawg
    Member

    I have a similar one. There's really not much to it. Just go slow and don't try and take too big of a bite on the valves.
     
  22. TRIK3R
    Joined: Mar 19, 2011
    Posts: 49

    TRIK3R
    Member

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhU0-jCfmZc
    Here is a simple video on valve refacing, he doesnt quite get into details on angles, the most part is covered though, just know the angle of your valves and seats, i would go through a detailed description on how to do seats but I am headed to the place that holds my paycheck hostage, I will get something together to give you a good idea where to start.
     
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  23. ArizonaBill
    Joined: Aug 29, 2010
    Posts: 72

    ArizonaBill
    Member
    from Arizona

    thanks for all the great info.
     
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  24. kwolf
    Joined: Apr 6, 2006
    Posts: 22

    kwolf
    Member

    Before you spend a bunch getting this going, these use a three ball chuck... The balls tend to wear, so see if you can get new ones... To check this, use a discard valve... Make sure you have coolant running, grind the valve, as you finnish, hold the handle that moves the stone on the valve in one position as you use the feed pressure to move the valve and the stone apart... NOW, before you remove the valve, stop the machine, note the position and rotate the valve 180 degrees in the chuck.
    Start up and bring the valve to the grinding wheel again, if it hits the whole suface of the valve at once, you've got an accurate machine... If not, chances are it's got chuck issues...
    There's probably lots of people here to help, as I'm a ways away- you could contact me, I could go over a few things like this on the phone...
    Karl
     
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  25. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,213

    sunbeam
    Member

    Just like the one in my shop. The round knob is for coolant flow to eather stone. The sloted plate is for the stone dresser. the right stone is for dressing valve stems I"m quessing theres a ficture for dressing rocker arms. I use automatic trans fluid for coolant it goes in the drawer on the left.
     
  26. Bert Kollar
    Joined: Jan 10, 2007
    Posts: 1,232

    Bert Kollar
    Member

    I sold hundreds of these when I was a Black and Decker salesman and I used to be an instructor for them at GM tech center. I don't have a manual (wish I did ) but I could use a break from Ohio's winter and if you want to pay my airfare I will come out and teach you how to run it.
    Wishful thinking
     
    Deuces likes this.
  27. Bill, the first thing I would do after a basic cleaning, is to check the run-out. Looks like the old 3 ball chuck set up. Some known good valves or better yet a nice new piece of drill rod, 3/8" diameter will be fine. Mount a dial indicator anywhere to the machine and turn the spindle by hand. With the indicator tip riding on the drill rod of valve face. Report back when you have a fiqure. These machines like many from that time were made to last and will do a excellent job. Like most machines, they are only as good as the operator. GOODSON should have some parts and the consumables for it. Want to practice take a big old intake valve and start cutting angles. Start with a 45, then coat the valve with Dykem bluing or even a Sharpie majic marker. Now cut 5 degree increments, larger and smaller than the 45. Each time put some bluing on the face before cutting the new angle. When you get 7 diffrent angles on there clearly, you graduate! Best of luck, TR
     
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  28. Fstarocka
    Joined: Mar 29, 2013
    Posts: 232

    Fstarocka
    Member

    Heck I might take you up on that! I put one together and the darn thing is so out of round its been sitting for 2 years!

    I really need to get it going- boxes of good valves I could grind and reuse at my shop!
     
    tractorguy and Deuces like this.

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