Hey guys, I own a 1950 Plymouth special deluxe and plan on doing a 440/727 trans swap and was curious to if any has a guide I could look over or a build sheet? Also a driveshaft and a rear end combo ideas are welcome to. I'm aware of what work will be done and I'm good with a welder, wrenches, wiring, and time. This will be my winter project. Also I have a running flathead 218 with a 3 on a tree for sale if anyone's interested.
I have a 49 with 383/torqueflight. Was a project my dad amd i started on when i was 16, but never finished. Looking at it now, i want to change everything we did. You're gonna have to move the firewall back quite a bit, and may have to go remote for the oil filter. When you're mocking up, pay attention to foot space because that's one of my big issues currently.
Member II Funny here built a 48 Plymouth with a 440. There are a few in progress pictures in this thread. I don't think he did a build thread on his car, but there are in progress pictures rwords the bottom of the page. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/when-did-flip-front-ends-start-becoming-popular.1120778/
Looking at the picture of your engine, I didn't realize they had the Slant-Six as far back as 1950 . . .
I'm installing a desoto 291 and 4 speed into my 49. Best advice I can give you is to remove the front sheetmetal and inner fenders. Get the motor and tranny sitting where you want/need and build everything else around them. You might have to move the motor to the right to clear the steering box. Find an E or B body 8 3/4 for the rear. I'd also do a Rusty Hope disc swap on the front. Those old Lockheeds will be working hard to stop that thing. Driveshaft can be found at a junkyard cheap or have one made. If you are a proficient welder and wrech, shouldn't be too hard. Good luck.
hey guys, there was a young hamber a couple of weeks ago looking for a running flat 6...anyone know who he is...could you pm him...thanks...great thread....mopar or no car...
65-7 or so C body axle should bolt right in. Many Ford axles from 70s Mustang/Cougar/Ranchero will fit with spring perch relocation.
Here is a link to the tread on the blown up 230. His profile shows him in Florida, so shipping would ba a challange. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/230-dodge-cracked-engine.1238992/page-2
I was actually thinking about doing it this way. How hard would it be to remove the front? I'm really good at arc welding and wrenches no big deal. Sky's the limit
I don't know about the difference there would in engine compartment room. But, I have a Big block Mopar and 727 in my '40 and didn't really have to touch the firewall. Gene.
I was wondering the same there, Ive seen a video of a 360 Mopar without firewall modifications. Do you happen to have any pics I could reference with?
I will look, I do have a book of build pictures, but I am not sure there are any good firewall pics. Gene.
The main two issues when you put a big block Mopar in something that didn't originally come with some form of one is oil filter clearance and exhaust clearance. I have never swapped one myself but have had a couple of buddies who played with them a lot.
In my case I wanted to keep the engine as low as I could, to get it back as far as I could, to keep from cutting the firewall. I had a set of old Hurst mounts, but they put the motor too high and too far forward for my liking. In mounting the motor where I did, I had problems with the oil pan sump location. Not the oil filter, but the oil pump to cross member clearance, and the starter and steering box wanted to occupy the same space. I used fenderwell headers, but don't try to use Mopar A-body ones. The motor sits an inch or more to the right in those cars. That makes one side too short and one side too long if you center the motor. Gene.
It's been done more than a few times. First thing to do is take a LOT of measurements. Areas that are difficult when swapping a straight 6 car/body/frame to a big V8 are; Steering wants to occupy the area of the left cylinder head and exhaust Both inner fenders limit the exhaust and accessories (easy to fix) BBM has the oil pump and filter at the left front, often causing issues with front crossmember A minor issue is the starter on the left, close to center crossmember with little room for exhaust Length can be an issue if you don't want to move the firewall but still want a fan and keep the engine back for clearance and handling. Remember that a smart fella who adds more power also adds more stopping, especially in modern traffic. Budget and plan on this just as much as the fun oomph factor. Expect to upgrade the whole drivetrain, including cooling, which requires a big radiator AND airflow in the engine bay. I dig a big block's torque. I realize that a 50s style engine is HAMB friendly and apparently you already have it. However, you can build a SBM to power levels that meet or exceed a stock BBM. It will also be smaller (easier to install), lighter (better handling and braking) and still be all Mopar. People have installed radial airplane engines in bikes and cars. They were great "look at what I can do" projects, but were more expensive in time and money than a more reasonable build. What is your list of reasons for this build? What are your limitations in completing it? Critically judge each reason VS cost and make a plan that is your best chance for meeting all your goals within your abilities and budget (time and money).
As far as pulling the front clip, there are bolts holding the front fenders to the cowl. I don't see any rocker trim in the pics, but remove it if it spans the rocker and fender. Also disconnect the wiring in the engine bay and remove the front bumper. If the hood is hinged on the fenders, not the cowl, remove it. Finally, there are 2 big studs/nuts under the center of the radiator support. Get a friend and from each side, lift in front and slightly pull out at the rear to remove the whole clip.
Isn't the 440 an RB Raised block , where most 383 are not? I think the nominal width difference from the ~.75" taller RB block ought to show up as an inch or so greater width for the RB. https://www.allpar.com/attachments/big-block-v8-gif.58988/ Maybe some of that can be mitigated with block hugger exhaust, but maybe not.
Thanks for the responses guys! Plenty of stuff to think about and add to the nuildm anyone know if it's possible to use the original transmission mount of would a new one be better? ( Auto trans)
Measure from crank snout to trans mount on both. I'll bet it will need modification or replacement. It would be simple to mount the trans on the mount and work forward, but if it were that easy and everything fit well, there would already be a kit to install, guaranteed!
You probably should check this thread...383/440 in '50 Coupe - P15-D24 Forum - P15-D24.com and Pilot-house.com
I am all about big block Mopar, but the proferred opinion about going the SBM route has some validity. It's almost impossible not to trip over 360 magnum engines, laying in the wrecking yards across America and this is the best basis for your motor. Trash the tired heads as the stock heads almost always develop hairline cracks around the valves on high mileage magnum engines. They don't "go to water" or leak cyl pressure, but who wants to build a fresh engine with hairline cracks 'round the valve seats? I'd replace with aluminum aftermarket, but RHS or even stock replacement EQ heads are readily available. 400 HP can easily be coaxed out of the 360 and 450-470 can just as easily be attained with a 408 stroker kit. I have one in a 1970 Barracuda and low 12 sec passes are common. I could probably break into the high 11's if I decided to get serious about dialing it in. Despite what others may tell you, consider the Chrysler 904 transmission. It's good for an additional 3/10's of a second (over the 727, less parasitic losses) and a fresh 904 will stand up to 500 hp no problem. The Barracuda mentioned above has a 904 behind the 408. Also, the 904 has a shorter tailshaft and a slightly smaller overall footprint than the 727.
Back in the 90s I built a 36 Dodge coupe with a 440/727 setup. I don’t know about a 40 but the 35-37 bodies have a pretty narrow “pinch” towards the front, so that sort of dictated how far forward I could locate the engine. If I remember correctly I ended up moving the firewall back about 3 inches. One of my biggest problems was clearance between the steering column and headers/exhaust manifold. I ended up with shorty headers some guy from a magazine ad fabbed for me - don’t remember his name. In hindsight I could have moved the motor to the right 1/2”-1” and avoided a whole lot of trouble. But I had already welded the motor mounts in. I should have mocked up the steering also right from the start. Another problem I had was clearance for the alternator. I ran a Toyota Denso alternator with mounts I modified from some random Mopar mount. Otherwise I would have had to notch the fender and put a bubble in the hood side. I learned a lot from building that car, most importantly to really consider the heat a big block produces and how I’m going to get rid of it.
Hey guys, got the motor rebuilt and ready for install (just a gasket rebuild). In going to remove the front clip to make it easier to install. I've looked at this car everyday this week pondering on how to get this beast in and secure and right now im trying to incorporate the mount to the car and was wondering if I were to bolt the mounts (from the engine/original) into the car frame then weld later on (final stages) and set the engine onto said mounts if that would work or use a different set of mounts. I do have the original transmission mount but not the cross member
Hey Mike, I wish you luck on your build and commend you for keeping it Mopar powered. BUT, your opening a big ol can of worms, which will require a big ol can of whoopass and determination. What you see in my avatar is a 52 Dodge 3 window coupe, 440 4spd, 8-3/4 rear, blast from the past. All`s I can say is good luck
Your 440 appears to have the industrial heads on it. Those exhaust manifolds are quite a bit wider than the regular manifolds. It will be nearly impossible to use those. Show us your kickdown linkage and carburetor that you are going to use. The Thermoquad that was on the engine is a very good carb, but most people do not like them. You do have to have a functioning kickdown linkage though.
I think they are truck manifolds, as it looks to have truck mounts. Does it have a rear sump pan and dipstick in the pan? Gene.
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