If I were building a fiberglass car to drive on the street I'd be as much concerned about side intrusion as I would be a rollover. As in, you're more likely to get hit at an intersection. That's why I like the above chassis. It has door bars, the footbox area is strong, and the main hoop is short enough above the supports it will probably stand in a rollover. If you've ever built a roll cage you know that the main hoop has about no rigidity until all the supports are installed. I'd run no roll bar before an unbraced one.
Tman, I have the original 1948 and 1949 copies of HRM, and yes I have read most of them. Those magazines only catch a glimpse of what was going on in hot rodding and racing in that era. HRM is not the end all be all to hot rodding. I have talked with plenty of guys that were hot rodding in the late 40s to the late 50s, and their stories inspire my quest. It was a time where everyone was trying to out do the other. Car clubs were ultimately created to inspire safety and cultivate new ideas of engineering and skill. California is one scene, and Detroit is another. My car has nothing to do with west coast influence. You wouldn't understand if you have never seen the cars that terrorized Woodward Ave.
Here is mine, although not a street car and I could not run a top. It is NHRA certified to 11.00 any quicker and I had to run a cage. Like iagxsr suggested I have door bars or shoulder bars going down to a hoop over my bell housing under the cowl. And two bars going back. I climb in over the door but I can open door to get in if I feel like it. There is also a rocker bar under car connecting the front to rear roll bar mounts. Pat
Show bar/light bar is one thing. A real roll bar is quite another. http://sports.racer.net/docs/rules/2002/sect_18_roll_cage_and_chassis_2002_gcr.pdf Section 4:10 - Adobe page 329 https://nationaldragster.s3.amazona...1/pubData/source/2020_NHRA_Rulebook_11_01.pdf
it won't get certified...but i'm satisfied. (stole that quote from the Honolulu Community College Welding Teacher....(there's no "general welding certification"))...Sorry Man...forgot your name!
Form or function...pick one.....Usually! If they are tall enough to be effective, they usually look too tall aesthetically.
You claim to want to build a lakes/drag car like guys would have done post war in Socal (do not forget gals, Veda Orr) but then you claim the blueprint does not fit your fantasy of a Detroit area dry lakes car? Make up my mind. You are cornfused with pie in the sky ideas.
Yes, I am asking about examples in history during or close to the late 40s surrounding the racing scene in California. No, I do not want a car that was otherwise influenced by west coast trends. As stated before, I am building a car that most likely never existed. It's a refinement of period correct ideas to fit a specific vision. The idea is if I lived in 1948/49 in Michigan and wanted to take a crack at the first SCTA speed trials at Bonneville, what would that car look like? Would the safety practices in Michigan be accepted at Bonneville? Everytime I search a topic, Tman, you poo poo the idea, when examples of my ideas are found in the very same thread. I'm never going to race the car. It will never break a record. It's only purpose is to showcase some of the best parts from Fords parts bin and theory of the period. If the parts, the steel, and the tech existed in 1949, then I'm going to refine those ideas into a late 40s hot rod from Michigan that could have road tripped to Bonneville and participated. I'm not sure why this idea has got you so tweaked and has muddied up multiple threads.
I'm surprised nobody has posted a picture of Pete Chapouris Limefire '32 roadster that had an honest to gosh 6-point bolt-in cage. In my opinion it embodied both the looks of a trad roadster with the safety a six-point cage offers, and had the performance to match. Ran 9-second quarters IIRC. While it may not reflect the era you are interested in, it does show roll over protection can be accomplished with a bolt-in cage.
When money, talent and taste is no object, that is the result. You need all 3. What a beautiful car. Pat
Certainly helps when you don't have a roof to deal with. I wonder what it bolts to? NHRA rules state rolls bars must be welded or bolted to the frame on cars with a full frame.
I found these images of the car the other day from a HRM article I believe. To me it looks like it would bolt to the cross members. I have seen an image of the cars chassis with no body but can't find it at the moment. I was surprised to see it only uses a 2 bolt flange. Can anyone speak to NHRA rules as far as what is acceptable for fastening it in specifically? It would be cool to have a car that could pass NHRA, SCCA, SCTA, etc tech but also be a true street car. At slower speeds at the strip and for an autocross event I would think that a main hoop, door bars, down bars going through the deck lid would work. Maybe add a pin / bolt in diagonal from the center of the main hoop to the passenger side frame rail when at an event? Very similar to what late model convertible guys run.
Rules only state that the cage must be welded or bolted to the stock frame without mentioning the number of bolts required. It does mention that if the cage is bolted to the unibody sheetmetal floorpan then the tubing must be welded to 6"x 6" x .125" and bolted thru the floor with 4 3/8" bolts
Pete's Limefire, didn't run 9's, I was at Bakersfield in '87 when it dipped into the 10's. Maybe P-Wood will chime in, he will know how fast the car was.
From what I have found, any bolt in bar or cage, regardless of construction is limited to 11 seconds flat in the quarter and 7 seconds in the 1/8th. I am struggling with that limitation, building my B/SR.
Limefire was built 35 years ago? Nothing on it should be looked at as an example for any modern sanctioning bodies current safety regs As for SCTA, Ken, Keith and the Rolling Bones were that latest ones to drive their roadster to the salt then bolt a cage in and race.
So a roll bar seemed, may be cool an look a little racy=makes car look faster? I thought in the late 1950s as I was building my first rod. I put one in my hotrod 28A roadster for the most part,just for looks although it was bolted to the frame. But after finding I didn't like it;; made my seat too far forward and if you took off real hard ,you could hit back of your head on it,an anyone riding with me!!>not cool. I removed it,put seat back the extra 2.5 in. and all was much better. The last photo I have with that roll bar still in my Bobtailed A rod. Done when I was redoing the "Y"block Thunderbird V8 from stock to a 3/4 cam. Rollbar one of those ideas that didn't work for me.
Marty I feel your pain, I too had the same problem with my MG. Keeping it true to the way it looked when last raced in the 60's and to pay tribute to those that took me to the track with the car, I decided to duplicate the roll bar (11.00 quickest) but when we got the car running and hooked up it was running mid 10's. I pulled out the 350 and put in a 327 with flat pistons, pump gas, roller motor. It still went 10.88. I retired the car and hopefully it will end up in the Garlets collection. Pat
@Marty Strode Could you share details of what you are planning on for your RPU? @Tman is that the roadster they had out there this year? I did not get a chance to take a good look at it. If I remember right the SCTA rulebook says something about bolting to "stock frame rails". Seems like it could be open to interpretation as to what that means. Is it just making a distinction between a body on frame car, a full tube chassis, and a unibody vehicle? I will have to see if I can find that section tonight. Is a set of '32 rails below a Model A or T considered "stock" as far as the rulebook is concerned?
They did it more than once I believe. Good idea how it worked in this Doc. https://www.amazon.com/Three-Mile-Ken-Schmidt/dp/B07F1HB5Y4
I checked the 2021 SCTA rulebook and could find nothing definitive. It says bolted structures must use at least 2 bolts 180 degrees from each other. 3/8" grade 5 minimum. It does not define where a bolted structure can be used though.
The Jalopy Journal
