My neighbor recently bought a '56 Pontiac and it was dropped off in his driveway this morning, he ask me to come over and help him crank the car, he was told it was a running & driving car but it's not running. When I got there the hood was up and when he hit the switch it just clicked, I checked the battery and it is strong, so I tapped the starter and again, it just clicked but I also saw a wisp of smoke. I tapped it again and the same thing happened, I checked the connections and they were all tight,again the same thing, I told him if it were me I would try a new starter. Have you ever seen a starter smoke? HRP
I'm assuming it's a typical GM starter with a solenoid on it, I'd suspect that's at least part of the problem.
Smoke is almost always related to a bad connection…they may be tight but not clean…stop and remove, clean and re-install including where the cable attaches to the starter solenoid. Do the same procedure for the Negative cables including frame to block….
Theboss20 above makes a good point and suggestion. After that if the problem still persists, try tapping the solenoid with a small hammer. Sometimes that can loosen them up after they have been sitting for any length of time.
I have seen battery connections that look good on the exterior, but remove the cables and they are corroded & no connection ... could be same with a ground strap ... you need to verify good connections.
a temp gun will help you find bad connections, too. They get hot. But since you've already found the smoke, you have a head start on that. Old starters can usually be repaired, and if it's the solenoid that's acting up, cleaning the internal contacts can help. but make sure the engine will turn, first
Jim (my neighbor) drove to North Carolina last weekend to inspect and test drive the car and he said there were no problems. This is Jim's dream car and his grandparents had one when he was a kid. I'll go back in the morning and double check the connections. HRP
Anyone put an actual voltmeter or a charger on it to see if its got enough juice ? Maybe even have the battery load tested ...
I'm assuming that there is no video of it running and driving. Still it comes down to the basics. Battery up to snuff not only showing 12.5 volts but actually having the amps to crank the engine. Battery cables in good shape and all connections CLEAN AND TIGHT. That means clean bare surfaces under the grounds on the block or what ever they are on. Engine paint is a great insulator. After checking connections if it doesn't crank I'd take and see if I could crank the engine over by hand For a full turn or two. If that works pull the starter and check it out. Every Delco starter I have ever seen is pretty well the same inside = 4 brushes, two bushings, and armature and fields. If it hasn't thrown solder from the connections on the armature at the commutator end it should be rebuildable. Usually you can clean up the disk in the solenoid and turn the posts for new contact area If they hadn't been turned. It's probably best to take that one to a local rebuild shop if your or someone you know don't want to go through it on your own.
Good call on the heat gun, Squirrel. Yes, where there's resistance...there's heat. Nicer to locate it with the gun than an unsuspecting hand...
Besides the typical cable corrosion, I've seen factory swaged connectors/cables, corrode badly inside and cause problems. Just a thought...
Just this week I had a similar problem. It turned out to be the battery. It showed to be fully charged on two different chargers, my multimeter and the test unit at O’Reilly’s but had a bad cell. All I could get out of it was a click. New battery, no problem. First time I’ve ever encountered that scenario.
I have had similar problems and had an old mechanic tell me to check the ground at the frame as well as the battery. I did and he was correct solved my problem.
If you saw smoke, it’s over. It’s common knowledge that everything electrical works on magic smoke, and since you let the smoke out it’s over. You need to get new smoke and an installation kit. Be careful not get British smoke, it’s positive earth.
Danny, all kidding aside, I’ve seen bad starter connections smoke, I’ve also seen the starter themselves smoke. Most people have no idea that you aren’t supposed to lay into a starter for more than maybe 10 seconds. The running joke at work is that you truly don’t know it won’t start until you grind the battery dead. Almost every truck that is towed into work with the won’t start complaint has a dead battery upon arrival.
Don't let the Magic Smoke out! A couple super easy ways to get a handle on things for future reference, trying this before you have trouble ain't a bad idea. It's part of a Tune-Up going back to at least 1920. Your friends and beer mooches will think you're a Genius! I mean, more than they already do. All that's needed here is a voltmeter. Sometimes you'll hear people talk about measuring ohms resistance in ground circuits, but this is useless in a low voltage high current system. Even a tiny bit of paper thin, almost invisible corrosion in any starter or cable ground or positive side connection will cripple it. The same holds true for the generator or alternator, by the way. The only practical way to check for excessive resistance is by measuring for voltage drop will the circuit is energized, or under load. If the voltage drop is within acceptable spec, then the starter circuit resistance can be inferred as acceptable. https://www.aa1car.com/library/voltage_drop_testing.htm Sometimes it is the starter itself that is defective. They can draw way more current than they should, and make starting difficult, because it is hogging all the juice and short sheeting the ignition. There are clamp-on ammeters to measure starter current draw. I probably wouldn't buy one, maybe they can be borrowed. Sure save from guessing. Another method of measuring starter current draw is to use a carbon pile battery load tester. Crank the engine over for several seconds with ignition disabled and observe the voltage reading. Then apply resistance to the battery to achieve that same voltage reading as before and observe the amperes indication. That's how much current is drawn when cranking starter. See that it does not exceed the book spec for the engine in question.
Duty Cycle. It's probably something like a 1/2 hour cool down for a 10 second burst. Extended cranking roasts the windings, I'd expect, when people lay on the starter for longer than that. That's also probably why "rebuilt" starters are such a crapshoot. They can replace brushes and bearings and shoot a coat of paint, but the internal insulation is burnt, shorted turns?
The car is running now, the problem was the battery feed terminal on the solenoid it was loose and wouldn't tighten up, I removed the starter and took it to the part's house and they were able to cross reference a solenoid that would work. Thanks for the suggestions. HRP
Those copper studs strip pretty easily if you over tighten one of thin nuts that com with most solenoids.
timely thread,..my 48 F-1 has been starting funny lately, first it would crank over really slow then start to crank normal;...thot maybe the starter was getting worn;...checked my connections and found the battery ground cable at the engine block was oily enuf to cause a bad connection, cleaned everything up, checked all other connections and now it works as it should. thanks for pointing this out on this thread.
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