Wow what a great tutorial on making parts to mate any engine to transmission ! That Kid made it look easy.
I always love to see someone think "outside" the box, so wish you well on both the project and the surgery. My suggestion is that you first check out what options you have for starter mounting. Some engines have provisions for block mounted starters only while others may have the ability to mount a starter to the block or the bell housing. This can be a major hurdle. I would look at that very closely and choose a transmission that has a similar mounting location and type. Then you have to solve the problem of ring gear diameter. I think I would look first at transmissions that have the starter mounted to the housing because it should make it easier to get the flexplate and ring gear worked out. From that point it should just be an adapter plate basically.
This is precisely why the slant six 904 should be considered. It mounts a starter whereas the G M ones Don't.
Model A (and B) is quite different to most car engines ,in that it has no cast in mounting for a transmission, it has a bolt on flywheel housing , I am not sure what the arrangement is for the Donovan "D "motor which the OP is proposing to use , but I assume it is somewhat similar. Starter bolts to the flywheel housing which bolts to the block before the flywheel or the flexplate is installed on the crank . The bellhousing adapter for the trans bolts to the flywheel housing . There are a number of aftermarket starters available , and the shaft and bendix can be adjusted appropriately so the starter is NOT a stumbling block.
Ray , tell me what is inaccurate? I have not "conflagrated" anything. I said I THINK they are same size as a THM400 not weight, I compared that to the THM 350. That was my opinion , based on 40 + years of lugging them around , going to the USA and buying container loads of GM engines trans and other parts and exporting them to New Zealand , and fitting them to all sorts of appropriate cars. I own and drive GMC pickups as work vehicles have done since 1977, and have Model A hot Rods since 1968, the two do not mix in my world. The THM200 and the THM200C and the THM2004R are part of the same sub family, however I did not mention any particular one of them , I just referred to "them" , but yes ultimately I was referring to the 200 4R because that is the only one shown in the chart (post #35). , and in fact IMHO a stock THM200 would be next to useless behind a hopped up 200 cubic inch banger. According to the chart in post #35 they are within an inch across the bellhousing, the distance from bellhousing face to the rear mount is longer in the 4R than the 400.... . that's actually bigger not just as big. The critical area in a Model A inside the car from firewall to seat , all THM are going to significantly encroach on the already cramped foot space and seating . Then there is the aspect of the torquetube , and rear suspension. If the TT is shortened too far the action of the rear suspension is compromised, if you change to open drive the whole rear suspension needs altering possibly including the spring , which alters the whole aspect of this being a traditional banger hot rod . As for weight some quick research from a couple of different sources says, THM 200 ...90 lbs without oil, THM 350 ... 120 lbs , THM 2004r ...118 lbs , THM 400.... 135 to 150 lbs depending on tailshaft . I don't think a GM trans is the answer to his prayers. In fact, If I were in his position ( probably will be one day) , I think I would keep the manual trans and convert the clutch operation to hydraulic with a small booster (like a brake booster) found on the clutch system of a Y60 Nissan Patrol .
If it makes anyone uncomfortable using Nissan Parts, the same vehicle was marketed in Australia , badge engineered as a Ford Maverick! .
@97 Sorry you are upset with my post. However, the word I used was ‘conflated’, not ‘conflagrated’, whatever that might mean. I generally standby my remarks regarding the various THM series of transmissions. However, I did not recommend ANY of them for the OP’s intended use, my comments were intended to correct what I saw as inaccurate characterizations. And, while not having bought carloads of engines and trans, I have on hand in my shop examples of all the models under discussion here (except the base 200, though I did have one some years ago) and have used various GM automatics in projects since about 1965. In a much earlier post I suggested an aluminum case Powerglide for the OP’s consideration. Ray
If I was going to adapt an automagic to a Ford Banger I would be looking at a C4. They are light and have tons of aftermarket support. Also have a removable bell which makes them easier to adapt.
Here are some pictures I took of an engine I removed from a 1930 Ford. You can see that the engine block does not have the kind of flange most of us are used to seeing at the rear of an engine. I think this is a benefit for the OP because a simple flat plate bolted to the rear of the engine would allow virtually any transmission and starter to be bolted to the flat plate. (Bellhousing mounted starter) A flexplate could be drilled (and spaced ?) to mount directly to the crank and a hole in the flat plate to mount the starter and a little bit of finesseing should make it fit. Looks pretty simple to me. Edit: One additional thing is it would probably help to machine the a step in the rear of the crank so that either the flexplate or an adapter would center when mounted.
Yeah, WHAT a mess. No one with direct experience has responded. I guess this is very small number of guys in hobby ! I watched a video/utube (?) yesterday. The kid made this whole thing seem like… nothing much… to adapt ANY ENGINE to ANY TRANS ! He is good ! BUT, not much……to a machinist, with knowledge and experience and equipment !! May as well be out of question for neophite. What I DID SEE… is that IT CAN BE DONE ! The couple of sources that did this kit are out of business, to my knowledge. Im drifting back to stick of some type… get couple of leg support braces and give that another look ?? NOTE: I had kind of settled (based on info recd here) to use the C4.
The D block is clone/identical to Model B.. in MOST aspects… EXTERNALLY !! If painted Ford green, most would not even notice that it is different/ improved. This condition exists, because Ed Donovan built and raced (B-ville, etc) the Ford B engines… forever. Like rest of us who only use the B and recognized short comings, Ed had the experience, knowledge and resources to know what improvements would bring big returns from a four banger… of his making. With 5- 4 bolt mains; with 5 cam bearing cams … on , on. Ed created a power based blk. It is awesome piece of equipment.
Maybe start a new thread along the lines of “How to adapt an auto to a banger”. Possibly been done on FordBarn also. Good luck!
If you are expecting all the ready made parts to be available, probably isn't going to happen. Like I said, its basically the making of a flat plate with a hole in the center to clear the crankshaft and holes to mount it to the block. Have a machine shop grind a step on the back of the crank to locate the flexplate.......or a spacer if needed. Dill the crank to mount the flexplate. Then clamp the transmission and get it centered to the crankshaft and use the transmission bolt pattern as a guide to drill the mounting holes. Once its mounted up, use the starter mounting holes in the trans to locate the starter. Mount a dummy starter case and scribe a line where you need to put the mounting hole. If thats beyond what you feel comfortable doing, then I would move on. I have seen the videos of the kid doing the adapting: The videos are interesting and the kid has good skills. He did demonstrate that virtually anything is possible. I feel that for most conversions, way less work and materials could be used. Instead of using three incompatible items, most are only going to require two things to be made to work together. I have no idea why he used the flathead housing unless he was installing it in a Model A frame and wanted to use the stock clutch linkage set up. In effect he was adapting an engine on one end and a transmission on the other end of a Model A clutch housing rather than adapting it all to an engine. If the flathead housing wasn't an issue, it would be much simpler to use a housing that either fit the transmission OR a housing that fit the engine. Then only one adapter would have been needed. The aluminum plate is expensive to purchase in thick sections like he used. In most cases, a much thinner and cheaper adapter would then be used. It could be steel or aluminum. I commend the kid and his skills and he made a nice presentation. I just feel that most adaptions will not be as complex or expensive as what he did. They are nice videos though............
I posted your suggested Q. Lets see what happens. Think I know how this WILLgo. This statement seems important… you need a starter, eh ! Can you say whether any 904 year is more desirable than other ? Also, what years was a 904 made ? Chrysler product, right ?
Pretty well any Mopar slant six car with an automatic. The 727 version was used in some truck applications.
Ok , going to change gears now. Anyone know what , if anything, has to be done to the closed TT driveshaft ? How about radius rods…. Any changes with auto trans change ??
Avoid a bunch of tailshaft/housing machine work, plus shortening drive shaft 20+", adapting Ford U-joint and enclosing cup and clamp, etc. Change to open drive, if you MUST retain banjo rear, update it to '39-'41, use a '46 pickup open 'U' joint flange and seal plate. (it's a kit from most early Ford parts houses: popular refit)
I happened to have a BIT of luck , by posting on fordbarn site. One of the FIRST responses led me to follow his advice/remarks. That info led me to locate a possible source of the kit parts that I’m looking for. I thank ALL YOU GUYS, for your help … so far !! I’ll keep you in mind to let you know any progress made ! Got to do a LOT more reading, questions and contacts for helpful facts. Please stay in touch, if you find info that is helpful.
I agree ! Sometimes Hey Mike, Thanks for sharing this info. Should make it easier, by having this parts info !! spreading the word… over time, can reach I agree, but one good thing about being older…patience !! My situation finally reached an acquaintance, who has some kit stuff that I need. Soon after my upcoming surgury, I will make road trip to Socal for parts. Who knows what I might find !
Ok, I think that I’ll CLOSE THIS THREAD…. For awhile. However, I’ll STILL answer questions if you havs any !! Good news is that aBUDDY has hooked me up with a REBUILT 904…with some parts to attach to my D !! Not exited yet… have to go pick it up….after surgery, in two weeks ! Ah, LIFE IS GOOD, eh !!
Hardtimes, if you find the time, I'd really like to see a thread chronicling the job of mating the 904 to the banger & how it turns out!
Mike , I think those of us who have worked on these things for 50 years , we sometimes forget and take it for granted that everybody involved has acquired the same skill level as we think we have! That open drive deal (in fact fitting a Chrysler trans) changes the job from adapting the shortened torque tube , to adapting a later rear end to open drive and then moving the spring over the axle, shock mounts , making a torque arm to replace the torque tube , relocating and strengthening and modifying both ends of the radius rod mounts , making a crossmember or other point of attachment for the radius rods and the torque arm, converting the whole car to hydraulic brakes, making adapters from rods to cables for the e brake, if it is fenderless fine, with fenders the rear axle is wider , and the Model A wheels do not fit on a 39-41 axle anyway, will need some brake drums and some spacers /adapters for wires or wide five wheels etc. In other words it is a whole new build, by time he changes motor to Donovan, gearbox to auto trans, rear to V8 , wheels tires and brakes ? From my undestanding Rick wants a bolt in kit for the trans AND info from someone with experience , which suggests he isn't up to a whole new build. If Rick does not have the skills to search the internet for parts, and /or make trans adapters how will he do all this? That is a far cry from him making his Model A easier to drive, because he has a bung knee..... Oh I forgot making and balancing a driveshaft .
Well, I’ll see how it goes, after I hopefully get repaired ! As things stand now…. I can hardly think logically, due to the pain. Dam, I thot a guy could/would get something good to mask pain. I’m thinking this is for all the bad shit that I’ve done Then I think that the pain should be much worse… if based on that. lol So, just shut up and take it like a HAMBER , eh ! Two weeks, 2 wks, one + one weeks…whose counting. I’ll keep you in mind. I haven't clue how it will go as of this moment. Because I do not know, I think. MAYBE someone else may need same help. I like the idea of helping another infirm guy who may need info to keep using their ride. We’ll see.
The Jalopy Journal
