Technical Brake Problem with New Wilson Welding Brake Kit

I bought a complete Wilson Welding Brake Kit for my 30 Ford Coupe build. Today I decided to mock up the front axle on the frame and install the backing plates. The backing plates came preloaded with everything installed (brake shoes, cylinders etc.). I bolted them on after grinding down the spindles as prescribed. The hubs went on with no problems. When I went to put the brake drums on they went on real tight on both sides. I checked to make sure the adjuster was screwed in all the way. There are no brake lines attached so there is no fluid to expand the brake shoes. I pulled the drums off and re-installed them several times with no luck. I even put on one of the wheels to see if I could turn them and no joy. Everything on the backing plates is made in China. I know this because Mr. Wilson put the empty boxes in the shipping box. The brakes are the same kind you get at O'Reillys (Brake Best).

I checked the thickness of the brake shoes and the rear brake shoe is 3/8ths of an inch thick while the front one is 5/16th. Checked both sets and they measure the same. I thought both brake shoes were supposed to be the same thickness. Am I missing something simple. I just replaced the rear drum brakes on my Tacoma with no problems.

I checked to make sure the drums are 2" and they are. The brake shoes are also 2".

This one has me baffled. If I did something dumb, please be kind. Thanks

 

Steel backing plates or the finned aluminum backing plates ?
Having done a lot of brakes over the years that I worked in shops and the time I spent specifically doing brakes and front end work a few things that I have found are?
A lot of time that brown goop they have all over the shoes builds up around the area where the adjuster seats on the shoes and they don't fully seat.
The anchor pin at the top can be slightly off from where it should be moving the shoes one way or another.
As you are thinking a particular set of shoes that should fit in the drums just flat don't fit in the drums when they are new. People make this stuff and people make mistakes. Finding someone who will arc a set of shoes these days is seriously hard no matter what the know it all brigade will say in later posts.
Unless someone has come up with a setup to collect every bit of the dust that comes off the brake shoes when you arc them you are going to have a hard time to find anyone who will do it with one of the old machines unless you find some back alley guy who will do it.

 

Well....you have two choices as I see it make the shoes fit the drum.....or make the drum fit the shoes. Put the shoes in the drum,and see where they contact then put on a dust mask,and slowly sand,and test fit until you get what you need.The second way is have a machine shop cut each drum lightly say 5-10 thou .This will true them up too since you dont know how good the Chinese kid who ran the lathe really is. Years ago it was common to have to custom fit shoes.

 

Try this…Loosen the upper pivot bolt. The hole in the backing plate is slotted for adjustment. This will allow the shoes to float a little when you install the drum and center in the drum. Once the system is plumbed and bled, you need to loosen it again and then with pressure on the brakes, tighten the bolt to lock it down and keep everything properly oriented.

 

I pulled this from their Facepage ... "Hello to all who have supported this page and business. With a sad heart, Wilson Welding is retiring. Please call the cell number provided, or email @ [email protected] OR [email protected] for any questions, concerns or possible business. We will reach back out to you ASAP. Thank you for your time, Interest and business. It’s much appreciated. Stay safe, healthy, and keep building those hot rods!"

Might be worth trying to contact them directly (assuming you haven't already).

 

I believe Anderson is on the right track, and has the answer. Loosen the top pivot bolt. It takes a 15/16” wrench/socket. Once you are able to apply line pressure after bleeding the brakes, apply firm pressure to the pedal and tighten the top pivot bolt. This centers the shoes in the drum. That is one of the adjustments you are *supposed* to make when installing the new brakes, but a lot of people seem to miss this step.

Secondly, if you are using original (‘37-48) Ford brake drums, that may also be part of the problem. Even though you are measuring 2” for the contact surface, the offset of the hub and drum to the backing plate may not be providing enough clearance. You really need something like an additional .060” for the clearance required between drum and backing plate. 1.75” wide shoes are offered for original Ford brake drums for this reason. I know some people get away with using 2” wide shoes in original drums but it doesn’t *always* work. If you are using Speedway or Boling Bros drums, clearance from the backing plate shouldn't be the issue...but you may need to arc the shoes to fit the drums if centering the shoes with the pivot bolt doesn't solve the problem.

Check those two areas first (top pivot bolt and shoe clearance). If you decide you need a different set of shoes, send me an email and I will try to help you get them sorted out. [email protected].

I purchased Wilson Welding from Bob earlier this year. If you have O’Reilly Brake Best shoes, you definitely got your Lincoln brake set from Bob, as I only use Wagner shoes. There was a time when Wagner had no stock on these shoes anywhere in the US, and Bob was forced to look elsewhere. I use Wagner, Raybestos, and Carlson parts exclusively. Contrary to what Bob’s (well-intentioned) daughter Rebekah posted on Facebook, Wilson Welding is still in the brake business, but under my stewardship.

If you do Instagram, you can contact me there or find more info on brakes at this profile address: @wilson.welding

https://www.instagram.com/wilson.welding/

 

These are steel and everything is brand new.

 

i had this exact same problem on a 8 3/4 complete drum kit from dr diff . what i found was the chinese brake shoes at the top where the cresent cut out that fit's over the pivot pin wasn't even close to being same shape or deep enough to let the shoe's come together. fix was to rework with die grinder. i measured part's against the original's. these chinese part's with american icon names on the box are taking the term junk to a whole new level

 

Also, if the new shoes are really out of whack and you don't want to grind on them, you could slot the top anchor bolt hole even more to align the shoe in the drum. I've done that on a repro set of Lincoln plates, but I don't remember which brand of plates they were. Once the shoes are wearing in you can always readjust the top anchor if needed. It's not bad to have a lot of adjustment slot.

 

Tried that this morning and it didn't work. I think the shoes are the wrong ones.

 

As others have stated the shoes must be centered in the drum. If the shoes won't center when the top bolt is loosened you will have to file the slot in the backing plate for more adjustment. Bob Wilson is an old friend and his products are first class. I have his brakes on two of my cars and am completely happy with how they stop. It's important that you understand how brake systems work, if not call someone who can help. Brian Bass is taking over the Wilson brake manufacturing and sales. Contact Bass for help if you can't figure it out.

 

Pics would help. Drums, brakes etc.

 

Here are some photos. I don't see anything unusual except that the right brake shoe is 1/16 thicker. Same on the other backing plate.

 

You really shouldn't have to but shortening the adjuster body slightly might work for you.

 

Just a thought, have you compared the adjuster length to your old one? I found the new ones supplied for my truck were longer than the ones I had

 

I’d ask about the different sized brake shoes. Something I’ve never noticed before, might be common or possibly was a supplier mix up with brands used?
A phone call/ email to Bass seems to be the proper way to go.

 

So if the drum won't slide over the shoes even though they are adjusted all the way in, you can't go any smaller. I'd say you might need to sand a bit off the shoes. Or the adjuster, as suggested by Borntoloze.

Back in the day you used to be able to get your new shoes arched to fit the inner diameter of the drum exactly. The shop would use a special sander machine to grind the shoes to the precisely measured drum on that wheel. Nowadays these machines are hard to find. But you can kinda do a similar thing by spinning the drum and seeing where it leaves marks at the spots hitting your shoes. Sand those high spots (usually either the ends, or in the middle) with some 80 grit on a sanding block and you will get closer to a perfect fit.

Before you modify anything, I suggest sliding the drum on like you have been trying, and see how close it lines up with the hub before it engages. Does it look like the drum is coming into the hub a little high, or low? This would be where you can see if the top anchor stud needs to be moved up or down.

 

Looking at your pivot shot, I am thinking that those shoes are off nine ways from Sunday. You don't even need your good glasses on to see that there is quite a difference in how the actual shoe sits on the pin.
I'd follow what Brian said and just get a set of the correct Raybestos shoes.
You could try filing the bottom side of that notch to help it fit the pin right but that is quite a ways off from what i am seeing.

 

The difference in lining thickness is because in dual servo brakes the rear, or longer/thicker shoe does most of the work

 

I’ve never had a new set of drums in the last 20 years NOT need to be machined out of the box.

but this is/was due to being out of round and causing a pulsation or noise.

like @Mr48chev said your shoes are not sitting even on the top anchor.

ive had lots of issues the last 5 years or so with aftermarket brake shoes at work ( fork lift and heavy equipment) simply not fitting right at times .
Do 9 brake jobs no issue and the 10th you try 2-3 sets of the same shoe from the same supplier and they just don’t work
Get a set of premium shoes rebuilt locally or OEM shoes and problem solved.

you have 0 adjustment at this point the drum should slide right on with no effort.

I’m betting it’s just a crappy set of off shore shoes.

 

Good to see you posting again Brian!

 

All the components are new including the backing plate. I don't have an old adjuster to compare.

 

I measured the inside of the drums and they are slightly undersized.

 

Where did you buy your drums?

 

How much undersized ?

might be just a quick trip to a shop with a lathe .

 

This!

 

You could also grind the bottom of the shoes where the adjuster rides.

 

Longer than the primary yes, this is the normal way.

More braking surface because the primary shoe had a groove cut in the middle yes, I've see that on discount off brand shoes.

Different friction material front and rear shoes yes, Again, this was often low priced shoes and I saw a lot of it in the mid 70's.

Thicker for more friction, absolutely not. This won't fly as it doesn't work.
I'd honestly believe that that was a miss matched pair of shoes from the start. Meaning that although they look real close to the same they are not for the same application when push comes to shove or the back shoe is just made wrong.

His best choice right now is to forget all of the wild ass guesses and get ahold of Bass and let Brian help him sort it out and get the correct Wagner shoes.

 

Why is the rear shoe hanging low? Look at the angle on the wheel cylinder link.

 

Who said thicker for more friction?
I’ve seen them thicker to even out wear as the back does more work.