Projects First flathead project...

Thanks for the reply's. Taking it slow seems like the best advice. My top priority is getting it to start while hot. It wouldn't do that when I tested it. It wouldn't even crank. Thus my priority for 12V. It starts just fine when enough voltage is applied, but not on it's own 6V battery.

Not really anxious to modify, just want to be able to get back home on my own without a tow truck after going to the local cruise-in. (Been there, it REALLY sucks.)

This car is a real museum piece and a high quality restoration, it's just not a real driver yet, doesn't have the scars. It appears very attached to low humidity indoor storage and polite "please don't touch" observation. My goal is to make it a real driver.

It's a Ford Special Business Coupe, not a Deluxe or Super Deluxe, thus the stripped down nature and one tail light and one wiper. Very few of the stripped-down "Specials" were made. Looked the car up on Google, it's been sold and resold several times in the past 2 years; multiple dealers trying to make a profit. I paid somewhere in the middle. A lot of money has been lost on this car; no one wants to keep it but me.

 

Hello CD,

The whole idea of having fun with whatever you drove was the key. Reliability of the hot rod is just as important and this Flathead sedan delivery was as reliable as possible for a first car. That in it self, made it fun. No worries about getting started on our road trips to various places all over the So Cal coastline. Let alone the daily trip to pick up my friends for the ride to high school.

So Cal has always been a part of me since my teenage years. When we were able to start exploring all that the coastline and surfing offered, there was no way to stop the explorations. Even our extended trips to San Diego and then continuing below the border to our Baja Mexico surf adventures, just opened up our minds to other possibilities, back then.

That Flathead was a solid running motor that did all it was capable of doing. I wish there was just more horsepower to allow us those times when we needed it most. It is never fun to be pushed over the slow lane on those highways. We surfed at most places with an open mind. The Torrey Pines State Park was an empty place, but got good waves. People bypassed the place due to the slowdown entrance and the long grade afterwards. Also, there were better, more consistent surf spots in Del Mar and farther South along the coast.

So, the times we surfed there, it was empty and we had a great time. But, we did not look forward to going up that hill to the top of the steep grade in first gear. We never considered crossing the traffic going the other way North. Not enough power to get started… for the merging.

Jnaki

Your car and choice are commendable. If we had more power from the Flathead, we would have kept the sedan delivery well beyond the 5 years we owned it. But, it was very reliable from the first click of the key and ran like a top. It just did not have a lot of power. It was an important part of our teenage years that allowed us to develop and satisfy the sense of adventure.

Do what you can to what you have and enjoy the ride… YRMV

 

Here's a little story. I have a '51 Ford which is still 6 volts. I have had the car almost 40 years, and have never had a problem starting it as long as I had a good battery. In all of that time, it failed to start only once, and that was on a very hot day when I had been doing errands. Even though the car has been very reliable, I was always troubled by that, and the fact that every once in a while it would sort of hesitate on the initial revolution of the starter. About a month ago, I decided to do something about it. I had a bunch of new bushings and brushes I had gotten several years ago, so I decided to go through the starter. I went through my stash of cores, and found one marked "GOOD", which I installed temporarily. I immediately know that there was a problem with the original starter as it spun over at least twice as fast on the "new" starter than it had ever done before; also, the slight hesitation was gone. When we went through the original starter, we discovered a "cold solder" joint where one of the brushes was connected to the field coils. One side we had to apply a bunch of heat to unsolder the connection, while the faulty side just pulled out.

Here's a case where 12 volts probably would have masked the problem with starter, which unfortunately could have failed completely at any time. As I said above, running 6 volts takes a little more care, but in my case at least, it was worth it.

 

That could be something as simple as a new starter or properly cleaning the grounds. Ground connections are alot more specific on a 6V car than on a 12V. The only main reason for manufacturers switching to 12V were the corporate bean counters. Smaller wire diameter required for a 12V system = less cost for copper wire.

 

Yep, my starter in my ‘59 Chevy PU one day up and quit on me. The neighbor across the street came over to see what I was doing, ect. When I got it out he said “bring it over”. We pulled it apart and he said “there’s your problem”. He resoldered all the connections then said “go try it now”. Worked like new.
Turns out he worked in an auto/electric shop for quit awhile back in the 60’s.
He told me if it was 6 volt I’d have had some warning.

 

I'm not so young and just moved here last year. Saw a license plate frame that says it all for me, "No, I'm not a native but I got here as fast as I could."

 

You all are giving me some great ideas to work on. Not against old technology, wouldn't have bought a flathead if I was. Maybe I can slow roll the 12 volt conversion. Could start by fully charging the 6 volt battery and checking the grounds and generator output. Not sure how to test the battery and rest of the charging system. Always took mine to the auto parts store where they have a nifty tool and do it for free.

Not sure I want to take apart my only starter. I've successfully taken apart a number of electric motors and generators but successfully put back together many fewer. Getting the rotor back in without damaging the brushes can be hard. Of course a new 6 volt starter is only $200.

Just don't want to buy a lot of parts trying to optimize a 6 volt system and then shortly thereafter buy a lot more parts to do a 12 volt conversion. Obviously, the best plan is to pick a horse and ride it rather than dither.

 

I would agree and that is why you want to start with cleaning the connections. That course is free and will allow you to enjoy the ride instead of throwing money at a issue that may not even be a problem.

 

If it's a full restoration, chances are all the ground points got a good coat of paint, hence... bad grounds. Clean all ground points, being methodical and doing one circuit at a time. Also make sure you have really good, high quality ends on the battery cables. Don't concentrate only on the starting circuit, look at the charging circuit as well. If you don't see any improvement, pull the starter and check it out (as well as the generator). Go slow, carefully and methodically... you'll get it squared away.
Remember... there were MILLIONS of 6 volt systems that worked quite well for decades. Yours can too.

 

This should make me even MORE popular around here....

Switch to 12v. I have multiple old 6v systems I've switched to 12, and I personally always do. Most of mine have been old boats, but my Ford is switched too. The only thing I'd leave 6v is a tractor.....

I'm not disagreeing with the guys who say a 6v system can work fine, it can, but it's just easier in the long run to switch to 12. Imho, of course.

 

Lived in San Diego for most of my life. There are a bunch of car guys and clubs around to help in person once you get everyone's opinion here.
Check out the auto museum in Balboa Park for local clubs, they had (have?) a restoration shop with a bunch of old-timers that would love a quick look over on a new to the area car.
Go slow with any mods until you are fully aware of the positives and negatives of each. Research before spending/changing.
As said, clean every contact, especially the grounds. Get into a conversation with the car and it will tell you what it needs. Expect some things on a restoration to require work to operate properly.

 

The T5 is the magical component to making the flathead do what you want it to do. Of course the flathead is under-powered in comparison to most any OHV engine, a SBC especially. But through the magic of proper gearing and utilizing mechanical advantage to multiply torque, you can make the flathead a very capable engine in modern traffic.

I would also echo the sentiments of those who recommend a 12v conversion. Good hot spark and quicker cranking will go a long way towards more reliable performance and easier starting. I know it's not the "traditional" route, but you could also always replace the intake with a standard 4 bbl intake and slap an Edelbrock 500cfm on there, which is a retrograde in cool but a big step up over strombergs and holley 2 bbls.

 

I came here to say that is sounds like an issue with your starter. I would have it, the generator (while you're at it) and the battery tested to see if they are all in working order. It sounds like this car didn't get a lot of use so things like that can go largely unnoticed and/or deteriorate from simple age in storage.

 

I'm getting just a little confused. It appears that you have rare (hence desirable) car in excellent original shape. It also appears that you are fully aware of that fact, You have apparently had the car for a very short time, and yet you are considering making major changes to it, many that might have a deleterious effcet on the value of your car. You were on the right track earlier when you said you were going to slow down. I hope you are still of that mind.

At this time the only thing I would do is to make sure the battery is in good shape and correct for the car. I say this, because once when I was in a pinch, I bought a cheap new Group 1 battery. Those are quite a bit smaller than various Group 2 batteries used in Fords, and I had trouble starting my '51 when it was really hot when I had it. I solved the problem by opening the hood every time I parked the car on a hot day, but that can obviously be impractical. I can't quite make out what's in there now, but I'd check it out. If the problem is the battery, I'd seriously consider a 6 volt Optima with 800 CCA. They are the solution to any residual 6 volt problems. They are kinda funny looking, but that can be solved with a faux Ford script case and top. They are quite expensive ($180 these days?), but the first one I had lasted 13 years and my second one is still going strong after 11 years. Also, like many have suggested here, make sure all of the grounds and connections are clean and tight. I would also check the battery cables. 6 volt systems require heavier cables than are available in and auto parts store, and 4 ga cables can really cut down on the current to the starter. I believe your cars uses a braided ground strap; if you don't have the correct one of those it could also be the source of the problem.

And for those of you suggesting an automatic change to 12 volts, read the guys description of his car; it sounds like a very special unit and he knows it. I know this is a "Hot Rod" forum, but we are to the point where the rare ones should be saved. One last thing. My dad was a traveling salesman in the Midwest in the '50's and '60's. He got a new '51 Olds that had a big overhead valve V8 and 6 volts; I never remember him having trouble starting that car on a Minnesota winter morning. I also had a '50 Buick with a 263 ci straight 8 and 6 volts that I drove to work for two years in the late '60's. It rarely failed me in the winter.

 

That's the carb I have as well, couldn't agree more. Depends what you want out of your ride of course, but if you want a reliable and strong car, hard to argue with this post.

 

Wow quite a thread here fellas for real . Input from all kinds is interesting productive and destructive all in one thread . I'm with RosStRace and Tubman . Tubman does me good with my Flatheads yes I have two now being built at same time . I ran a 1934 Ford up and down and all thru San Diego especially North County Fallbrook area . Truck has a 221 85 rebuilt BONE STOCK with a 97 back up with mechanical pump . You only need 4 psi for those carbs all this fancy pants injection systems shaving heads is blabla . Please do take a look at what you have . I've been doing vintage Ford's for 47 years now and you have a real Sweetheart . Please just look at the beauty someone has created including under the hood . My 34 was considered hotrod cause I ran dual 32" mufflers and carried a fire extinguisher and yes a 12v starting and lighting system and 39 Ford hydraulic brakes . Wella! HotRod ! These Flatheads need alot of rework to accept bigger CFM they have small intake runners and valves . My 85 HP ran sweet with a 97 went all over SoCal live in LA so needed hydraulic brakes . If you want a pro opinion yes get the 6v 800 or the 12v conversion hook up dual exhaust and go see the old timers like I do they know best and guys like us learn and practice what they preach to us . Have a nice evening and keep your foot in it

 

As Tubman pointed out, check your cable sizes. For a 6 volt system...bigger IS better!!! Keep in mind, a 12 volt conversion involves lights, starter (although a 6 volt will live a long time with 12 volts), generator (or convert to alternator) regulator, gauges ( I HATE auxiliary, below dash gauges...they look like an after thought), so it's not an afternoon walk in the park and can take a looong time if you aren't fully prepared with parts, diagrams, etc.
Be aware that gel-type usually require a different type of charger and jump procedure than a liquid acid battery. A GOOD 6 volt battery will be $$$, but worth every penny.
Good luck, have fun.

 

If you are lucky enough to still have an electric motor repair shop local to you I would take the starter to them. They can make it as good as new and will charge you a fair price. You could even drop off the starter and generator to have them fully tested and repaired.

 

Well, I am the old grouch, but there is no reason for any of this modern shit to be attached to a flathead ford. You're parents or grand parents drove old fords all across the country to take the kids to Disney land or to seek work in tough times, The military ran them all over Europe in WW2, the crab duel point distributor was designed by Mallory, and its hard to improve on that unit, and, like tubman states, bad points may misfire all the way home to your driveway, while the electronic shit stops now...where ever you are. To me, a big part of the fun of playing with old cars, is to...have an old car! I firmly believe, in all aspects of life, new is not necessarily better

 

I got a story for everyone backing up RustyValley . I grew up with the famed Indy Winner Engine Builder Dick Jones as my Uncle . What a shop ! So Uncle Dick says to me " So you gonna shove all this money on parts that are designed to go 1/4 mile or 500 miles ". He also didn't believe in shoving gobs of money in a flathead to make it RACE but some guys I know have done a great job at that but I stick with Tradition and real enjoyment when it comes to a real decision as to what to do and nine out of ten I choose factory OEM for Value , Longevity , Peace of mind , and it's just the right thing to do . Building monsters are fun yes but leave that for swap meet fun onother project . My way out project is going fiberglass if something goes wrong I ain't crying

 

Oh also I've been using #2 Welding Cable for all my clients battery cables with Marine terminals some with 1/2 solid copper bar as cable ends brazed together . Starters love it

 

Thanks for more great ideas. Transport delivered the car yesterday. Driver told me the car had to be jumped to get it started on the way down but he noticed the battery cables were loose. The highest return on investment of any tool I own is probably my battery terminal cleaning brush. Used that, and tightened the cables with a wrench, and got it started without a jump. Of course it was cold. Put the battery on a trickle charge and it went to green overnight.

Had to work yesterday and today so haven't done much. Played with the lights a bit but I think that drained the battery way down in just a few seconds; six hours later still charging. May have some gremlins there too, some of the wiring looks original. The neg battery cable is 2 ga and the positive ground is braided wire. Checked the tire pressure; all 4 less than 20 psi; in other words, no one's been taking care of the car. Not like bringing a barn find to life, more like bringing a trailer queen to life.

 

In most cases I wouldn't hesitate changing up a car and making what some arguable would call upgrades but that car is just too nice and looks to be a complete honest example. If it was me I know I would eventually regret changing anything that would detract from the originality.

 

Thats a great lookin car, I would just maintain it and drive the shit out of it. have fun!

 

man what a great start! Beautiful!

 

I agree that the car looks great! It sounds like the battery has not seen the best care and use lately. I think I'd start there (with an Optima).

 

I agree that it looks great, that you are reviving a trailer queen and that the battery is the first thing to suspect and get tested properly.
Once you have a known good fully charged battery, check for any parasitic drains and clean all those connections. Then check the charging system function on and off. At this point, do a full check of the fuel system and ignition. Once it's ready for driving and sitting without issue, move on to brakes suspension and alignment.

 

Well looky at the Beautiful Queen ! Congratulations you ain't dreaming now it's for real and a fine classic example and magnificent in your garage . Funny when you go to bed you'll wanna go out with some milk and cookies and watch her rest .So you know these Battery trickle chargers emit caustic and corrosive fumes that chew on under hood paint and besides looms so draping old towels and wiping down inner fender firewall and underside of hood I recommend and on storages between shows I remove batteries altogether and store them in enclosed vented cabinets . I can't see your garage floor to well but if you deal seal the concrete every couple years will deter about 90% of your undercarriage damage . YES you have a project it's how to keep the car looking tomorrow as it looks today and do learn how to polarize these old generators everytime you disconnect a battery cable . She is lovely indeed your having fun now I name all my cars and the ones I build for others so I gotta wonder if you have a name in mind ? Enjoy and keep your foot in it

 

Also be aware that an Optima is not a "gel-type" battery; it is a lead/acid battery, just a different type. They are known officially as "Absorbed Glass Mat" batteries and work on the same chemical/electrical principal as traditional "flooded" batteries except by a much improved technology. I have been using my regular old chargers and battery tenders on them for almost 30 years with no problems, and am experiencing a consistent battery life of over 10 years.

 

Status:
1. 6V battery is good and fully charged (according to AutoZone)
2. Worst ground ever; scraped the paint off the contact surface and bolted it back. Getting a star washer for good measure on the next trip to home depot.
3. Cranks just fine now when hot. Probably means the starter is good too.
4. Will check voltage next time car is running to see if generator is charging.
5. It's a 6V car for now, no urgency to convert to 12V
6. Something's not right with the Model 59 94 carb.

When purchased, it was idling around 1200 rpm with the idle screws about 1 1/4 turns out and with the accelerator pump in the "severe cold" hole. Gas weeping from somewhere. Really nasty off-idle hesitation. Not undriveable but very unpleasant. Reset accelerator pump to "summer" hole, reset idle speed to about 600 rpm, adjusted idle mixture to eliminate black exhaust, idles fine but screws are only about 1/4 turn out. Very odd. Still have a lot of gas weeping from somewhere. Right through the idle screws is one place; they seem moist to the touch. No change in hesitation or driveability. My assessment is that gas must be leaking inside the carb as well as outside and which is why it likes only a quarter turn out on mixture screws. With only a quarter turn out, the transition circuit probably isn't working correctly. Accelerator pump could be bad too. Looked at the Edlebrock rebuild kit for a Holley 94. Not really too much in it. It might help but would not be surprised if it doesn't. I'm very tempted to give up on this carb and just get a new one but will probably go through the motions of the rebuild kit. I'll check the rated fuel pressure of the electric pump, maybe it's too high. Would prefer not to use an electric fuel pump but the mechanical pump doesn't seem to be able to pull enough fuel through the electric pump when I turn it off.