Projects Weekend haul - 324 Olds and Hydro(s)

Lately I’ve been making a concerted effort to sell off some of the stuff I’ll never use but I guess old habits die hard. A friend of mine is doing what I’ve been doing, cleaning up and thinning out years of accumulated treasures. Knowing I’m messing with Oldsmobile engines and hydros he made me an offer that I found hard to refuse. A complete 324 Olds engine and three hydramatic transmissions for one low, low price. So I headed for SoCal in the family truckster with chains, blocks and dollies in the back.
After a great visit we loaded up the parts and I took them to their new home. The engine is complete except for the starter and bellhousing bottom and it turns over fine. Two of the hydros have the bellhousing and complete torus assembly intact.
I believe the engine is a 1954 with a four barrel and I’m hoping that the HAMB gurus can tell me what year the transmissions are. I need this stuff like another hole in the head but it made for a fun weekend (and a great workout).
Here’s some photos.
The engine


The transmissions

 

Hmmm? Hydros may be a 50 and 51 ? The C9 a 49?
What is the block serial number from the tab by the center port.
Quite a haul for sure. Bet the 'ol truckster felt you were over working her on the way home

 

Over on the AACA forum there is a post suggesting the prefix C indicates Cadillac and the numbers would be the year fwiw.

 

I love it!! Cleaning out your junk, so you buy your buddy's junk!
Doesn't that make it recycling?!?

 

Don't you like how components were permanently identified at the factory, like the stenciled tags riveted on? Unlike now, a plastic bar-code label that fades, then falls off.
At least the parts have found a new home.

 

Thanks. It took two trips. A complete Olds and hydro is a load, add two more hydros and ’57 Cad roto and it’s like a locomotive.
Is there a source for decoding the ID numbers? I have a slant pan version behind the Olds in my roadster, I was hoping that at least one of these would provide some interchangeable parts in case I have to go into the one I have now. After reading PhilA’s adventures repairing his Hydro I’m willing to take a shot at building one myself if I have to. I didn’t want to see these get scrapped then find out mine needs hard parts.

 

The dip stick location on all three, is where it was on a 49-50 and possibly 51. You had to pull the floor mat back, remove an oval shaped cover on the tunnel for access. They are flat pan, dual range four speed, with the gear selector that had only low and drive, shifting once in each gear. Olds in 52 had an S on the shift quadrant for Super. The 49-50 units were a bugger to get into reverse, it was best, to pull it into low, let the driveshaft tighten up, then pull it down into reverse. We used to refer to them as, the Jerk-O-Matic. They were also very easy to setup for racing, you pull the governor plug, and install three spark plug washers on the stem, and re-install, boosting the shift pressure. It would also stay in a gear until you "Bob" the throttle, and it would chirp the tires on the shift.

 

When you say 57 Cad Roto I assume you mean transmission? If you mean Roto Hydramatic, then that can't be. Roto hydro didn't come along till 1961 and I'm pretty sure never used in Cadillacs. If it's a 57 Cad trans it's a dual coupling 4spd known as Super Hydramatic or Jetaway or a couple other names. Nothing like the earlier dual range hydros but a heck of a lot better than the infamous Rotos. Just a piece of trivia.

 

I kinda think of it as “rotating my stock” Lol.

Marty, those are my recollections of my hydro days too. My fancy, racy C&O hydro in my ‘47 Ford was a flat pan with the dipstick under the floor hatch. The 2-3 shift was gnarly and actually broke the front U-joint once doing a lot of damage. My first Austin also had a flat pan hydro behind a 292” SBC. I don’t know who built it but it worked well. My last Hydro was a C&O slant pan behind a 394 Olds in a ‘55 Chevy Carryall. It was a street version and I never had any trouble with it either.

I wasn’t sure of the correct terminology for it but that one trans did come from a ‘57 Cad and it was working when pulled and stored indoors. It’s free for the taking if anyone needs it. It’s in L. A. (San Pedro)

 

I’ve always liked those tags whether it’s the Hydramatic tag or Delco-Remy on a distributor or generator, nice mfg tags ad some “soul” to old parts.

 

there is a junkyard in mojave by me with a complete 303 cube olds, trans, drivshaft and rear end in the car. the owner wants about 700 bucks. i grew up building olds but don't have any need for one now.

 

The O50 is a 1950 Olds, probably a 8 cylinder. The C51 is a 1951 Cadillac with hydraulic reverse, single range. The C9 must be a 1949 Cadillac, should be C49. The front band can be used in most 1946-55/61 Hydramatics, not the Olds or Pontiac slant pans. The rear bands can only be used in 1946-51 HM’s as they are 1/4 “ narrower than 1952 up bands. Dave

 

Hydro jerk was another name for a Hydro. Be careful about using to many spark plug washers, to much oil pressure can cause internal leaks leading to being in 2 gears at the same time usually on the 2-3 shift.

 

I assembled a first aid kit to try to start up the Olds engine next time I get down to L.A. I've got a starter and the adapter, a distributor with all new tune up stuff, a coil and resistor, a carburetor (thanks, vtwhead), gaskets, an oil pressure gauge, battery cables, a remote starter switch, compression tester and some hoses. I also modified my Hemi dolly to accept the Olds so it will be stable when I start it.
At the swap meet in Bakersfield I couldn't resist these old Offy valve covers, I'm sure they will make it run better. Hey, if you're going to have old stuff lying around I guess it might as well look interesting. They even have old blue paint between the fins to match the engine. With all the other projects I should be working on, I don't know why I'm having so much fun tinkering with this.
I just got to thinking, should I shoot some MMO or acetone/ATF or something in the cylinders and let it sit until the next visit? It turns over fine, just wondered if the poor old rings would stand a better chance if they got something to help them un-stick. The plan is to change the oil and pull the valve covers so I can squirt oil everywhere I can. I didn't want to take it apart any more than that.

 

Wow, that carb looks like new! Can I have it back when you are thru with it

 

Rockets and Nailheads. Coolness.

 

Ha, ha, ha. There’s a couple nights worth of carb cleaner, elbow grease and shredded blue gloves invested in that old carb. Thankfully it was in pretty good shape.

 

Well, a little update. I finally got back down to LA with a laundry list of stuff to do while my friends do a new driveway for me. My Pontiac powered Studebaker truck adventure came to a halt when the center carb on the TriPower decided not to squirt anymore. I messed with it but it needs more help than I can provide 400 miles from my shop. So what to do? Go ride my bike at the beach? Work on the house? Go buy some more Levi’s? Nah…..
I rolled out the little Olds engine and set about startin’ it up. I pulled the plugs and shot some fogging oil in each cylinder. I turned it over with a ratchet several times to spread the oil and put it on TDC. I cleaned and gapped the old spark plugs. Changed the oil filter and filled it with fresh oil. Mounted a coil and resistor. Swapped in the rebuilt distributor. Hooked up battery cables, a remote starter switch and the oil pressure gauge. Filled the carb with gas through the bowl vents and stepped back to see if it was all ready. Using a spare spark plug on the #1wire, I got the timing close.
I ended up cranking in more advance and it finally started. After a few carb adjustments and more advance it starts and runs just fine. It has 35 lbs of oil pressure at idle. Seems to rev up smoothly and nicely, thanks to Vtwhead’s fine Chevy carburetor. It does leak oil at the front pan seal and at the rear. Don’t know if it’s the pan or the rear main.
I need to remove the thermostat so I can put a hose to it and run it a little longer.
Imagine that, two old engines that have been resting for years came back to life this week and they both seem fairly healthy. I’m having way too much fun….
Oh yeah, my daughter said that she will get me sorted out on YouTube when I get home so that I can post the videos. I think she could do it now but my wife told her to wait so I would be motivated to come home and not stay down here forever working on stuff. Lol. A couple pictures to hold us over.

 

As I showed earlier in this thread, I have three old hydros that came with this 324 Olds engine. Which one is the best candidate to mate up with the Olds?
The other two will be stripped of their torus parts, bell housings and other parts and put in the scrap metal pile unless someone out there needs one.

 

Where are all the HydroHeads today? Among the three hydramatics I have here, which would be a good candidate to run with the 324 Olds? My gut tells me, 51 Cad 1st, 50 Olds, then 49 Cad. Any wisdom?

 

They all sound like flat pans which were the earlier ones and supposedly stronger according to the old A Gas Supercharged guys. Many say you need more than one today to make one good one. Are going to take them apart?

 

Yeah, my plan is to salvage what I can from the two that I don’t use. I have two slant pan Hydros at home, both in working condition. I was just wondering if they incorporated slight differences in the Cad version to make it shift more smoothly since it was a luxury car. That might make the Olds version a better choice everything else being equal.

 

I was actually in the process of getting the Olds ready to start when the call about the Stude pickup for sale came in and I got seriously distracted. When I finished getting the Stude pickup started, I decided to get back on track and try to fire up the old Olds. I changed the oil and filter and poured some oil over the pushrods and rocker arms. It all went smoothly, the old engine fired up and ran pretty well with minimal lifter clatter and good oil pressure, 35+ lbs at idle.

https://youtube.com/shorts/2cUzcWc_Rsw?feature=share

However, once warmed up a little there was a knock that appears when you raise the RPM much above idle. It runs smoothly but the knock is pretty ominous.
Also, there is a severe oil leak at each end of the oil pan. I have an engine stand that works well with the extended Olds block that I’ll bring down so I can remove the pan and check out the bearings and stuff.
I don’t really have a plan to use this engine in anything right now but I’ll probably do what I can to fix it. If I’m going to store an engine, I prefer that it is a good running engine. Other than the knock, this thing runs great. We’ll see…..

 

If the heads are original to the engine, the engine is a '55.

I know you've got a bunch of hydros but any consideration to running a stick behind that? Or if you're looking for an automatic, adapting to a TH350/400/700R4? You have all kinds of options and now would be the time when things are kind of apart.

 

You may be right. I was told it was a ‘54 but the head number does seem to be ‘55 number. Vtwhead said to check the ID number but I keep forgetting to look. I’ll put it on my list.
Next time I get down to LA, I will run it again and try to determine which side the knock is coming from. Then, I’ll put it on the stand and pull the pan and maybe the head on that side. See if I can repair it without a full rebuild.

 

The number stamped in the deck, on the left side in between cylinders 1 and 3 will tell you what year the block is. 54 and 55 blocks should be the same, but it's always worth checking because your cam journal size is different in 56 and you wouldn't want to get the wrong stuff.

 

Been real busy moving house here, but if you end up not using the '51 let me know and I'll take the valve block and pressure regulator off your hands...

 

Sure, when I get to that task I'll PM you so you can let me know what you need.
In your research of the old Hydros, did you see any reference to differences in the Cad version vs the Olds/Pontiac version? In my vague memories I seem to remember someone telling me or reading that additional changes were required to make the Cad version a performance transmission due to changes Cadillac wanted in the name of smoother shifting.

 

The only difference I saw documented is in the internal structure of the clutch drums, with the Cadillac variant having 6 pins rather than 3 to hold the friction plates in place.

The only other thing I could think of would be the valve that alters the rate at which the bands engage could have a different profile to mean it slips the changes more.

Phil

 

Thanks, that’s what I remembered. Maybe some different springs and bleed hole diameters to smooth the application of bands and clutches. Probably not addressed in manuals. And probably nothing that would seriously affect using it behind a stock engine in a light hot rod. I do like a snappy but not jarring gear change. My brain always equates a slow, squishy gear change with excessive wear.