Im saying that when it was all installed if I got under the car and turned the pinion back and forth that there was too much play. There is supposed to be a little. But instead of basically just clicking back and forth a fraction until it actually starting spinning the ring gear it moves what seems like a couple of degrees. Ill try to bend the need back. I did a little but it didnt seem to want to move. Im dirty and frustrated. That should probably be a HAMB motto. Dirty and frustrated.
Ah, a whole different deal, and probably nothing to do with the crush sleeve- it is not unusual to have quite a bit of backlash at the yoke in a used third member. You may have not had any problem in the first place, but probably do now. Might want to just slow down, and maybe find someone local with more experience to help you
I did mark all that. I agree it’s lost now because I feel like maybe I missed a full turn. But I did do that.
Yeah, it's lost. Best to just change the sleeve and be done with it. I've seen guys cinch it w/o marking w/ no problems but again, that's hit or miss. Joe
I used to keep every extra shim from every shim kit I ever used. There are some small pinion shims from one of the Dana's that fit the Ford pinions, same diameter as the crush sleeve. I have put a thin one on top of a used crush sleeve and crushed it a little more to get proper preload. I have done it in Mopar differentials too.
Okay. Video above is my attempt to put in a new crush sleeve (I got two in case I mess it up) Thats as far as I can get it to go. And there is clearly a bunch of slack left in it. I dont know what to do from here. Thats just a generic Dorman sleeve because it was in stock. Over 230lbs on my big torque wrench. A breaker bar with a helper on the end of it was threatening to break and it wont move. Im not sure if the sleeve isnt crushing. If Dorman is full of it and I need a taller crush sleeve. FWIW the new ones are taller than the old crushed one. So in theory they should be fine. Most of the ones online said for 7.5/8.8/9" etc. Mine is a 64 rear end so maybe its early and weird. At any rate I’m done tonight. Maybe I’ll stop on my lunch break tomorrow and buy a gnarlier breaker bar.
When I was teaching differentials, we had lab units that had been disassembled many times. Like many schools, we didn't have a lot of money for parts so we used to take crush sleeves and hammer the crush area back down. I wouldn't want to do it on something going into a car, but it worked fine on the lab units.
I've put the pinion assembly in a press to get started on the crushing...but finish it with a wrench, and lots of muscle. btw do not use a torque wrench to tighten the nut, use a breaker bar with a pipe on it. Use the little torque wrench to see what the preload is. Sneak up on it.
I have done many many seals , after about 35 of them with the torque wrench , I now hammer a few hits with the impact on stun instead of kill and it’s over , all have worked fine . I think you crushed the sleeve too much
It does take a pretty stout pull to get the sleeve to start to crush, then the required effort will get a lot less- you will feel it break away and get easier to turn
I was just checking it to see how much pressure I was applying when it wasnt moving anymore. I was starting to question my manhood and wanted to make sure I was actually exerting the 200 ftlbs that the internet says it takes to start crushing one. I was using a breaker bar to actually attempt to move it. I couldnt leave well enough alone last night, got out of bed and went out and cranked on it. I did finally get it to move enough to remove all that slack. If it got easier after the sleeve started crushing it sure wasnt by much. I was still using a breaker bar, with a pipe on the end and praying that the top didnt break off my work bench. When I get home from work I will try to get another bit of turn out of it and get the preload in spec.
I did the pinion seal swap on my 1986 AMC Eagle (I think that's the car I did this to) years ago. Marked EVERYTHING, counted the turns to remove the nut, replaced the seal and returned the nut to the exact spot it was in (I believe I used Locktite too). Worked perfectly. Years later I tried the same thing again, this time to an 8.2 Camaro 10 bolt rear. Well, almost the same ... this time the nut seemed to go on too loosely to me (I should have replaced the nut but I didn't) so I gave the nut a tiny bit more of a turn (I can't honestly remember how much but it was definitely only a small amount) and drove the car 40 minutes to Mosport (to spectate). I barely made it home. I didn't actually think I was going to make it home, the rear end was making so much noise. If I remember correctly, my over-tightening caused the destruction of the pinion bearing which caused the pinion to wander in any direction it pleased, which ended up taking out the pinion gear and ring gear. Hope your "a snug more" didn't go the way mine did
I just changed my 9" Ford from 3.70 to 3.25. I assembled the pinion carrier with new crush sleeve and seal using very light machine oil on the bearings and a light wipe of assembly lube on the seal. I then put the yoke in my bench vise and did the initial tightening until I had no play. Using a 30" breaker bar I started tightening the nut until I felt a little drag, took the yoke out of the vise and re-clamped the housing in the vise. Checked the drag with the in-lb beam torque wrench and needed more drag. I must have done this a dozen times, pulling the end of the breaker bar about 1" each time until I had the 10-15 in-lb drag reading. Take it slow and sneak up on it like others here said. No noise and works fine. Good luck! Edit: I used the original bearings which had maybe 2,000 miles on them so used the 10-15 in-lb drag number.
Good info, thanks! I have to replace a pinion sealin the Bronco rear in my 41 pickup project, IF I can ever get to that point.
That's exactly what happened- enough is enough, and too much is too much/ bad. BTW, I went to Mosport in '67 for the Can-Am/ Trans-Am races, then to Montreal for the World's Fair. Watkins Glen was my home track growing up, it and Mosport are the two most beautiful courses in NA
There ya go, pretty easy if you do it right- a little tedious, but not a place to get in a hurry. When you get the crush sleeve to that point, and you're going drag racing with a manual trans, pull it back apart, precisely measure the thickness of the sleeve, then buy or fab a solid spacer that is precisely the same thickness and reassemble so it can crush further from the shock loads. A neat trick I learned from an olphart, for stock-type setups, when you go to set the backlash, run the near-side spanner up until the ring contacts the pinion, then preload it with the offside spanner- it will move the assembly over, and the backlash will be pretty close, saves some time. There are many levels of strength one can build these to, an easy upgrade is the "Daytona" pinion support with the larger bearing, pretty common part. I have a cool old-school Funny Car third member that my old Cobra buddies bought from Mickey Thompson sometime in the late 70's, that has a huge pinion support carved from billet with huge truck wheel bearings, big solid spacer, and a big splined shaft, with the actual pinion and the yoke bored and splined to it that was done by one of the Chrisman's- a ton of work. Also has a load bolt through the side of the case that matches to the finely machined and polished back of the ring gear with a few thou clearance to minimize deflection
Holy fuck…the extra 1/8th of a turn did not cause a problem. When reusing a crush sleeve go an extra 2-3inch pounds of rotational torque. The crush sleeve maintains preload has nothing to do with pinion depth. If it howls on decel then the pattern on the coast side is screwy…
If it were me I’d pull the whole thing out and set it all up properly. If the pinion was loose it will for sure change backlash.
It certainly did in my 8.2 which, I admit, is definitely not a Ford 9". To be honest, I doubt I went even an 1/8th of a turn but the extra 'snugging' most definitely did crush the bearing enough that it failed in roughly 40 minutes of drive time. I was there, got the T-shirt, the sunburn and the hangover Rear end ran perfectly fine other than a slight pinion seal leak. Forty minutes of drive time later and the rear was scrap (it was an open rear with an undesirable ratio and therefore easier to replace the entire rear with another one than waste time rebuilding it).
Then yours was well outside of spec…I have no idea the circumstances around it. But can assure you I have done a ton of pinion seals tightening them 2-3 inch pounds more than they w ere and they have lived happily ever after. Either way it still won’t cause a howl on decel. It’ll eat the pinion bearing and make noise long before it changes the pattern.
Okay. She’s back in there. I ended up leaving alone at 10inlbs of rotational torque. There was a lot of different information thrown around in used bearings. Some said as little as 5inlbs on used bearings. Some said the seal alone added 10-15inlbs. Idk. I got it to 10 and called it good enough. As luck would have it, it fixed the problem. No more loud howl on decel. The rear end is still on the worn out side. Maybe over the winter I will have it rebuilt. A 3.25 is probably a good compromise gear. That 2.75 was great on the Highway but it was just too high for the heavy Galaxie with a 4 speed. I had to pull timing because it pinged with that gear. It now makes a tiny noise all the time now. This may be that “hunting” thing you guys were talking about. I found a really faint mark on the pinion, but I could just not find the mark on the ring gear. So I just sent it.
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