Hot Rods Dare to be different - 63 Scout

Exactly Right !!

 

And the new Sparky spark spark box is in.

Fired it off a prime and the engine came to life immediately so we managed to wire iot in and not burn the Scout to the ground. I'll test fire and set the timing tomorrow or the weekend. I was hoping to go test this Sunday but they are calling for rain for the next 5 days. It's a good thing, the farmers need it and it'll help the wildfire situation

 

Look what followed me home today

Thinking... competition coupe

 

Oh,My!

 

very unusual car. keep everything UNDER that STOCK sheet metal on that cute little sedan..

 

That is definitely going to need it's own thread.

 

Scout not fixed - Couldn't be more pissed off, frustrated and exhausted with it right now

$1,600 worth of new ignition, $4,600 long block refresh ($1,800 transmission refresh) and the Scout is still farting and backfiring with the MSD ignition as it did with the Mag and before I threw a hockey sock full of money at it.

I'm at a loss and at the end of my knowledge

 

OUCH !!!!

 

I was going to comment on how cool the little new project could be . Butt--- I don't think your mind set is on a new project. Have one or more of those Northern Beers you rave about and go fishing! Clear your head and the answer will come to you. As Brian "racer x " would say its no big deal , its racing! Hope your day gets better. Larry

 

I have an offer from a new friend, Chad Berg, of Chad's Auto Repair to haul the Scout to his shop to see if we can sort it out. Chad is an accomplished mechanic, racer and builder. He has better diagnostic tools and a chassis dyno. But maybe more important is that it's a fresh set of eyes on the issue and a LOT more experience

This Scout was acting up last Sept and the motor was refreshed with new valves and valve springs since then so I'm doubting it's anything in the long block but we'll double check it anyway

Here's the story:
This is what it was doing last Sept before the long block refresh and still - after the refresh.
It does this with the Mag and with the MSD ignition

• Scout starts and idles very well but #5 and #6 cylinders are colder than I think they should be.
• Once warmed up, if I crack the throttle there is a bog and it will backfire through the pipes as it comes back down the rpm range. The backfires are not subtle
• When it bogs it has coughed back through the blower. The pop off valve has been activated once or twice
• If I slowly increase rpm it will take it until about 3500 rpm then it stumbles

This is what we have done to date - besides spending dozens of hours hunting and searching.
Keep in mind I run through this list literally every time someone new comes over to help. Sometimes the "help" just walks away shaking their head

• Refreshed long block - new valves and valve springs but otherwise a clean bill of health
• Fresh gaskets for the injector and blower
• Compression check - before and after refresh. All cylinders are dead on
• With the Magneto we - (Deep breath) - changed cap twice and rotor once, changed points, Ohm tested plug wires, swapped plug wires, made fresh plug wires and installed, tested coil, tested coil wire, changed coil wire, changed plugs - many times. Even tried colder and hotter plugs
• Reset the barrel valve and butterflies to baseline numerous times
• New injectors and fuel lines
• Fattened it up and leaned it out numerous times up and down the scal
• Cleaned all fuel and return lines
• Fresh fuel
• Checked timing - many times
• Swapped out Mag for a full MSD 7AL-3 and HVC II ignition
• Repeat much of what was done prior (listed above) with the new ignition
• Swap the MSD leads to see if they were backwards (No change)
• Used course adult language - Scout did not respond
• Begging and pleading - No response
• No response to threats

What I we might be doing at Chad's place

• Reset baseline - TDC and timing, barrel valve, butterflies and bypass
• Run the valves - look for anything obvious
• Pull the blower and have a look for anything obvious - Add new gaskets
• Check for leaks that might be leaning it out
• Change the fuel pump and inline filter

Wish me luck

 

Sounds like maybe the pump needs to be flow tested.

 

Sounds lean....

Unless you're stupid rich an engine isn't going to care, it'll slurp it up and ask for more...

When you're lean it will hesitate and backfire...

Do you have access to a wideband O2? Not traditional I know, but it's a tool.

Devin

 

My dad drove a Mayflower once, said he had to roll the window down to make room for his shoulder.

 

Well - Shit
The towel has been thrown in for the season

Before going to Chad's I blew out all the lines and cleaned the tank. Fuel was fresh

Getting to Chad's was an adventure as fog and rain had settled in. The 90 mon trip took almost 2 hrs. When I did get there we opened my inline filter and found it to be nearly perfect. We did find some damage in my fuel pump so we looked at my backup to the back up 80A-1 pump (My flowed and certified backup pump is in the Prefect). This pump had a -6 outlet so we decided that was too small. Tried swapping the guts from my #2 backup into my other pump, but the guts were 5/10,000 too tall and seized when the cover was tightened. Spent an 2 hours messing with shims and gaskets but when we could get it to turn, it leaked. I never did take a picture, but at one point the pump had foil tape hanging out of it as if it was getting highlights at a salon...

We threw in Chad's 110 pump knowing it was likely too big. After hunting down fittings at a local speed shop and deciding to run it without a pump saver loop we got it in and fired. No backfires, no hesitation. It was fat as hell but it sounded good and throttle response was crisp (There was much hope)

We put it on the chassis dyno and let it eat... it was fat and at WOT / 4200 rpm it broke up badly. We made 3 more pulls. We swapped MSD leads, leaned it out and almost dropped the Scout off the raised dyno when a strap flipped on the mount (Clean up - aisle 1)... But it never got past 4200 rpm before it ran like shit. And I simply ran out out of pills to lean it out any further. We speculated the fuel was washing out cylinders or even my vent wasn't adequate to keep up and the fuel was cavitating. It was at that time that Chad's pump made the call for us by developing a shaft leak that started dribbling out of the pump mount and got worse as we watched it. And - we ran out of time.

Yesterday I hauled the Scout to my brother's shop and swapped my pump for the Prefect's original pump. The - flowed and certified as "OK" by Enderle - pump was put into the Scout - And it did not solve the problem. (Crap)

We turned our attention to the barrel valve thinking it had moved on the arm. From what we could tell it was correct. We leaked it 3 times and ran the gambit of fat to lean... Still no joy

Folks are asking about tank vents and bypass cleanliness, fresh fuel and and assortment of setting etc etc etc.. I appreciate these questions and inquiries as I know they are just trying to help. But all of there ancillary pieces and settings are the same ones I have been using for years and they have been checked, double checked, triple checked, checked by different folks with a fresh set of eyes and even replaced with new

I'm at a total loss as why the Scout ran great at one event and then ran like crap the next - when nothing was changed. Just routine maintenance that I've been doing for years. I've exceeded my knowledge and much better racers are at a loss as well. It doesn't help that I'm the only one running a 4 port upright injector in the area

At this time I'm frustrated, tired, broke and hurting and I'm throwing in the towel for not only the Man Gas event this weekend but for the Fall Fall Out later in Sept. Time to pack up the whole system and send it to the experts to flow and rebuild whatever needs to be rebuilt

 

OK... Towel Yanked back for one last try - And it's more than a bit embarrassing

Took the Scout to my racing friend Darryl Forest who reached out to me to help. Darryl knows more than I do about injection and has set up a 4 Port / Square Barrel valve before.

The first thing he tells me is... "You have it plumbed wrong" (Pardon ??)

The primary bypass is where the high speed lean out should be (at the inlet to the barrel valve) and the high speed lean out is where the primary bypass should be (in line with the spool). We also took the high speed apart to see what jet was in it and found that it was empty. And by "empty" I mean missing the jet the springs and check valve... Empty (WTF ??). In fact the unit we took apart didn't even have a pill holder attached. How that ended up on the Scout - I have no idea but it likely had something to do with the thrashing we did on the Prefect to get it sorted out

I need to be clear here. Where the bypasses were installed is how the unit showed up from a reputable supplier and it's how I've been running it for 4 years. I know there were pieces inside the High Speed and there was a pill holder and a jet in it as I had it apart to learn the system.

My friend Darryl wasn't even sure how it started let alone ran at idle

We flow tested the bypasses. Primary opens at 5 lbs, and the high speed opened at 58 psi. We re-assembled it the way it is supposed to be and it fired immediately. No farting, backfiring or bogging.

Now I need to confirm the MSD polarity is correct and confirm the timing and then I'll haul it out to the track tomorrow. Mechanically it is correct and for the first time in a month, I feel optimistic about the solution.

Of course chasing the Gremlin - so far - has cost me $1700 in a new ignition I likely didn't need to change out. New caps, rotors, points and wires for a Magneto I'm not using any more... and can't use with the MSD. Not to mention the $400 in diesel hauling the Scout around Southern Manitoba to folks who were generous enough to help me hunt down the problem.

All for a 3 minute fix that would have cost me nothing if we knew more about the system

I will advise how it worked over the weekend - Wish me luck

 

Hey, Saxxon;
Glad you n your guys narrowed down the problems. I was going to suggest you catch Brian (RaxerX) & pick his brain. When you get that mill running right, it'll be a good one for the new Mini-Rolls you just got. & the Scout can then get the proper hemi - like it had... . Sounds like you're already building up a supply of parts for the next engine... . W/3 drag cars, you'll be fielding a Team! .
Marcus...

 

Dont feel alone... seems like every few years at least one of the local sprint car guys has problems in the spring after putting the car back together for the new season. First thing I ask if its plumbed correctly and they always say yes.. when I get there I find they have the return lines (barrel valve, low speed, pill or high speed) plumbed wrong. I thought yours just started running bad during the season or I would have suggested to recheck the plumbing. I give all the guys a copy of the plumbing schematics from a old Kinsler book as a future reference.

 

Well... We didn't get to make a pass this weekend but things are looking very good.

This past weekend was our twice a summer gathering of the Manitoba Gassers and Nostalgia Racing group (Man Gas) and of course, I'm the guy running the program.

Saturday was busy at the track and I was trying to organize a Man Gas Bracket Bash... which meant I waited too long to decide to run the Scout before the rains hit and shut us down

But - we ran it up against the trans brake to 6000 rpm and it was crisp and loud. This is an entirely new animal now that it's plumbed right

Sunday were supposed to make 3 exhibition passes as a group but the track was shut down by a violent wreck just as we were forming up to parade into the staging lanes. The good news is the driver is ok and released after an overnight in observation. The bad news is - we didn't get to run. There was racing Monday (Labor Day long wknd) but I had other commitments

I plan to go back out with no excuses Sept 18 and make some hits. My brother Paul is planning to bring the Prefect and we have a friend putting the finishing touches on a Gene Adams built injected 392 Hemi powered Front Engine Dragster and he wants to use the 18 as a test day

I will advise !!

 

I was running the injection as it was set up when I got it.. And that was how I ran it for 4 years before the issues started. It was running 9's and no problems... then it decided to start running bad... But as I said above, now that it's set up correctly... it's and entirely different animal

 

Going to call it "Fixed"

3 passes this weekend, all without issues. Of course the "Petulant Child" tried hard to not play nice. I had to rebuild my fuel shutoff as it decided to leak badly. Even then it threw a fit as the new rebuild kit still leaked, then I had the stupid thing in and out 3 more times to get non standard nitrated o-rings to fit and not leak.. But in the end (and few hours later) we got it sealed up... Then after my 2nd pass, my fuel filter loosed off and started leaking... seriously ?? 10 second fix but... seriously ??

The combination is still not optimized and it's running very fat. We will creep up on that as we make more passes. Likely next year, but for the first time since the first weekend of August 2020, (almost 15 months) the Scout made it out of the burnout box and made a pass

The first two runs were kept to 1/8th mile and I never really leaned on it. Still went 10.78/83 with a 6.31 1/8th. and 10.68/85 with a 6.24 1/8th. My last pass I legged it out at 2/3 throttle and it went 9.97/134 and that was hitting the rev limiter in 2nd (oops)

The new MSD ignition, the repaired transmission as well as the new 10.5 W slicks are fun. The Scout does really good burnouts and it's tracking straight as I take it past the starting line. It was windy (30 - 50 kph winds) and I was still rolling back through smoke.

I really wanted to get the Scout running this weekend for 2 reasons. First - My poor time management saw me miss an opportunity to run the Scout during the Man Gas gathering. Second - This was the Fall Fall Out 6 weekend at Rock Falls Raceway (Wisconsin). An event I love to attend and missed out on last year and again this year (COVID restrictions). Making passes on the same day meant a lot

But we are done for the year (maybe).

The last event for Interlake Dragway in October is always a hit/miss for weather and generally the track is slick. I'll do a run through on the Scout for a health check (Compression, valves etc) and the watch the weather to decide if I will run again this year.

Next year I may keep the runs to 1/8 mile. Maybe a change to 3.73 gears.
But for sure - next year - the Scout will be at the Meltdown 10 event (assuming the borders are open).

Don't be surprised it if has a For Sale sign in the window.

My back and other broken parts can't keep this up much longer. Just about that time to let the Scout go to the next enthusiastic racer and I will look at something simpler to work on and transport.

But in the mean time, I have all winter to work on what's hurting

Cheers


How I spent my Saturday morning


But it ran, and ran well !!

 

Manitoba Gasser and Vintage Racing Association - Man Gas

I guess once you have T-Shirts and a logo you are an official group.
Or is it... to be an official group, you need to have T-Shirts and a logo ??

The Man Gas group is ;literally nothing more than a gathering of like minded people. No dues, no meetings, no accounting. And it has grown nicely over the years.

The Man Gas mission statement is very simple:

• Promote Vintage Drag Racing in Canada and Drag Racing in General

This mission statement will be fulfilled if we help to bring more fans to the tracks (Butts in seats), more cars to the tracks we attend (Vintage or otherwise) and more racers to the events

We are not a very big group but the quality of the cars and the quality of the people has been exceptional. Our twice a year gathering at Interlake Dragway has been well received and we look forward to 2022 and fewer COVID restrictions that prevented the spectators from roaming the pit area. Some of our regular members travel 3+ hours (one way) for the events. A few years back we have even had one adventurous soul come up from Wisconsin. (Thank you Robert Nieves)

For 2022 we decided to have T-Shirts - and take on the effort and administration (read that as - pain in the ass) that comes with them. Maybe this time I'll stop giving away more than I sell

The T-Shirt design was done by Micah Claycamp who contributed to the CARtoons magazine when it was around. Working with Micah was a genuine and pleasant experience and we did it 100% through FB Messenger. He was diligent in getting our requirements right and patient with my change requests... even at 11:30 on a Sunday night

A sticker design is being finalized but it will likely be the t-shirt design without the cars in the foreground

At this time we are not taking Pre-orders - but that will happen soon... I will advise
We will also have them for sale at Meltdown 2022 (with permission of course) and any other event the Man Gas group attends

 

A few of the louder and rowdier members of Man Gas showed up for a little Test n Tune this weekend

Pics by Rayme Thompson

If I had the wheelie bars set any lower they would have dragged the track... still lifted the front end a foot or so. The new 10.5W slicks bite hard and make serious smoke. It'll be show time in 2022



Paul Pelissier - 49 Prefect


Larry and Arlene Arnold's Sheets and Giggles... Knocking on the 7 second door


Kyle Campbell's new car - That's a real Gene Adam's built 392 Hemi folks !!


Chad Berg's 2 ton all steel 572 powered monster. Good for 8.30's

 

Glad you got it all worked out. Thanks for the cool pics!

 

Last race weekend of the year up here at Interlake Dragway
New Best Time for the Scout

I keep leaning out the injection and the Scout keeps going faster. Plugs are telling me it's still a bit fat but we will deal with that next year. I'm also tweaking the body which tells me I should be adding some more bars to the cage and chassis. Actually popped both doors on the burnout when it got a bit sideways

Last pass of the season

• Decent launch (1.44)
• Good 1/8th (6.11)
• Lifted at 1200 ft - and it still went 9.605 / 134 (Usually go through the lights at 139+)

9.60 is a new personal best 1/4 mile time for the Scout

Next year I'm adding a puke tank for the transmission, moving the trans cooler to the bed and a change from 4.10 gears to 3.73. Not liking going through the top end at 7600 rpm. Also hoping the new ratio will make the Scout more predicable off the line and maybe give me the confidence to use my trans brake

But for now the little pile of farm equipment get's winterized, pump and lines removed and put up on jack stands in the trailer until the spring.

 

Karma Comes Full Circle.
One of the things I have been trying to do with the Scout is connect with anyone who was part of it's history and the biggest hole in the story is the original builder Jim Pratt. I have never met him. Sadly, he passed away before I got a chance to do just that

This evening I leave the gym early because it's busy and a trainer whose client came in late took over the machines I wanted - I'm walking home through the Home Hardware parking lot that's literally around the corner from my house, when I see a middle aged couple messing with the wiring on a boat trailer. Being the eternal good Samaritan, I ask the gentleman if he wanted real tools and to swing the boat and truck around the corner to my house. He accepts and over he comes.

I'm in my race trailer digging out electrical connectors and tools when I hear; "You've got to be kidding" from behind me.

The gentleman is looking at the front end of the Scout sitting in the trailer.
So I ask: "Have seen my Scout run ??"

His answer; "No, but if this is the Elephant Hunter then my Dad built it"
"Sorry... what ?"

Yup... this was Jeff Pratt, son of Jim Pratt. This guy literally grew up with this truck.

The wives came out and introduction were made. I offered my condolences about the passing of his Father.. Jeff fixed the wiring in about 5 minutes and we spent the next 30 minutes talking and sharing pictures. Then Jeff shows me a picture of a hand painted show sign Jim had made for the 1971 Car Show in Winnipeg. It's still in perfect condition and - I can have it - but I have to give him a ride in the Scout. (Deal !!)

Jeff did sit in the truck for a few moments. It was quite the moment as he then told me he had never actually sat in the Scout when his Dad owned it. I even showed him a picture of his Dad racing the Scout at Bison / Keystone Dragway.

This is one of the best moments in my automotive adventure

 

Now that is a amazing turn of events. HRP

 

That is great! You just made my day seem brighter. Thanks for sharing this.

 

Now that is serendipity.

 

Great stuff!!!