This whole thread has rekindled my interest in old Sprint Cars and 4Banger Speed equipment, Thanks Carter. Bob
Great thread....re that sway bar..........the sway bar looks very similar to those used from at least 1936 to 1941 on Plymouths and other Mopars, both the beam axle to 1938 and the independent front end from 1939..........they changed the vertical link used a couple of times but the "sway eliminator" as my 36-42 Plymouth Master Parts book calls them could have been modified to suit the use in something else.......the rubber(?) mount that the sway bar goes thru doesn't look like anything I've seen on 39-41 Mopars that I am familiar with but that could easily be changed from the stock setup...........regards, andyd
The sway bar mounts look like 40 Ford, but the holes in the ends of a 40/41 sway bar are horizontal, unlike the vertical holes on the bar in the picture Great thread, very interested to see progress on this, it should be hooked up to the So Cal plating 35 tub replica Martinez industries is building for a customer. Bravo sir
I'd be interested in seeing any pics of the SoCal Plating 35 Ford replicar..........the roof on that is just amazing, as is the rest of it......at least from the few pics that seem to exist of it that I've seen.........andyd
Progress should be slow for a while yet. I'll probably be researching for several more months before I even start parts hunting. I'd really like to find definitive proof of the lineage before I start. Once I do, it isn't going to be easy or cheap to find an Offy, if not impossible, though most of the rest of the chassis parts I've already got. Once I make the trip out to look at the '46 car, things should pick up after that.
Bob, thank you and everyone else who's replied here or showed interest! There's a handful of folks, yourself included, whose contributions here helped kindle my interest in old racecars and banger speed parts over the years.
Well yes that would account for the parting line. The Chrome bath I worked with was about 24 inches wide by 36 inches long by 18 inches deep. It was a research facility so most parts were of the small scale for us. But you had to be innovative in case the job was bigger or odd shaped! Sometimes we would have to make odd Anodes to throw the Chrome ions to the substrate. We either had to just put down a coating in micro thickness layers or protection layers as job required. I would batch plate nuts and bolts for our stock room back then . I learned so much and pinch myself as I recall all the great thing accomplished at the lab. It is an art that you acquire to get good plating. I learned from our senior plater's. They make plater's tape so you do not have great overlap on parts which would cause grief. We also had a "stop off " liquid type material we would use when needed. My bath's were Chrome ,Nickel, Cadmium, gold, silver,copper and we had a anodized Aluminum bath to treat Aluminum parts as per request. I loved that job as I learned from the older guys!! Just like here on the HAMB. We had people from all over the world trained in all aspects of science. We could just go to them and ask questions. Just like here! A fantastic resource except we do not see each other except by this site but believe me you are all a great source and I appreciate it!!
I look at your project and think when I moved from the farm to our current location I cut up a similar frame for iron, I think it was early Chevy? I had dreams of building a 3 springer but realized at my age it wasn't going to happen. Good luck with your project
I already had a very nice Essex frame and a '28 Chrysler frame around to build 3-spring cars from, and maybe some day I might still, but they've been pushed down the priority list now.
HotrodA, that's the Gus Schrader car in 1940, the only year it ran with a #3 instead of it's usual #5. The Collins car ran #2 that year instead of it's usual #7. Curly Wetteroth built that car as well, for the '37 season, and with a 255 Offy, though it had been replaced with a 318 Offy by the '39 season, and looked rather different by this picture in 1940. See pics below. That car has been restored to it's 1941 2-spring version, the way it was when Schrader was killed in the car in Louisiana. New car in '37: With a new grille and paint job in '38: Another fresh paint job for '39 and some Houdaille shocks to replace the friction units: 1940, the last year as a 3-spring car and with a new nose and tail, running as #3. That's Gus standing next to his car: And 1941, now a 2-spring car, and back to running #5:
Not much to report on the project other than continuing research. I haven't made it out to LeMars to look at the restored Collins car yet. I did have a chance to look at more pictures of the car from the prewar years. One point of interest relates to the hood straps. So, the hood on this car is a 3-piece affair, 2 sides and a top. The right hood side is fixed in place, and the top and left side open together, as in the picture below from 1936 showing Collins adjusting the Winfield updraft carburetors. Here's a pic of the right side from the same set of pictures in '36 showing the fixed right hood side panel. And one more from '36 showing the 2 hood straps on the left side. Note the location of the rear strap in relation to the cowl. So it stands to reason there should be 2 holes in the left frame rail top that are not on the right frame rail top. And, on my frame, there were holes in those positions on the left rail that were not on the right rail. However, there were 3, one being in the front strap location, and two towards the rear, just a couple inches apart. Rearward pair of holes on my frame showing relation to forward-most cowl bolt hole: One more, showing no holes on right rail top: And another showing single forward strap hole only on left rail top, again no holes on right rail top in that location: Now, here's the car in '38, alongside the Schrader car, with carburetor openings added to the hood top, but rear hood strap still in the same location. And again in '39, basically the same as '38: Here's 1940, with a new, much larger carburetor opening cut in the hood top, and the rear hood strap relocated rearward, very close now to the leading edge of the cowl: While it's certainly not proof of anything, it's just one more thing that, when combined with the other photographic comparisons, really makes a strong case for this being the frame from that car.
Oh, I did pick up a set of #10 Dayton dental drive hubs, and four 17" lock ring wheels. I'm fairly certain the car ran 17" rear and 18" front, but this gets me a little closer to having the right wheels. I picked up a pair of 18" lock ring #30 Daytons as well, which are the same spoke count and lacing as the #10s, so I think I can use the rims on my centers. #10 Hubs: 17" #10 lock ring wheels: 18" #30 lock ring wheels:
I had not noticed this til today but I think I inquired about your frame rails at Hershey. They are great. Did you happen to get them from these folks. If so I might have a little something to add
Guffey, that would have to be the place. They go by 'Unique Classic Cars' on eBay, and are in Mankato.
I am not sure it amounts to anything but it might give Carter the start of a path backward on the rails. They apparently didn't remember how they acquired the frame rails, and I am only guessing. I bought that super modified from them off of craigslist 7 or 8 years ago maybe longer. It turned out to be quite interesting.( that is another story) They told me they bought an entire estate of a deceased car guy in Illinois ( i keep thinking Pontiac ). I wonder if these were part of that estate? I never had any luck figuring out who it was. But I came up with this photo years ago and think this is him?
@guffey That's certainly a better lead than I could ever get from them. The person I talked to said they'd been on the shelf there for many years, so that makes some sense as well. Any idea when that estate sale could have been? Anybody recognize the guy in the picture, or the shop? Thanks!
@guffey That probably makes it even harder to track down. I wish the people at that place were more willing to share information. The guy I talked to said he would ask around with some of the employees who'd been there longer, but it never really materialized. Maybe nobody there knows anything, I dunno. Was there a thread here or somewhere else about that super mod? It looks rather familiar. I'm still hoping to track the lineage of these frame rails, though it's possible it might not happen.
Guffey, When you saw the chrome rails at Hershey were they across the street in the YELLOW Field? I saw a pair over there in 2001, the year I bought a drop tank and wheeled it back to the Chocolate field with a hand cart. Bob
Figured I'd drop in here and give a small update. So, I went out to the Plymouth County museum in LeMars Iowa earlier this year to study the restored Collins car, and took my frame with me. It even got carried inside my hotel rooms at night for safe keeping! Having the two frames side by side it's clear they are nearly identical save for some of the bolt hole changes mentioned previously. One change that I hadn't noticed in pictures is that the bolt spacing at the front spring hangers on the rail sides was different by 1". Interestingly enough, the existing hanger brackets have a second set of unused holes as currently mounted that match my frame. Another point of interest is that, prior to having the reinforcing plates added, the 'new' frame was cracked and welded in almost the exact same location where my frame had been cracked and welded. So those were certainly very suggestive details to further the connection. While at the museum, there was a young man there working on a vintage car for the museum, preparing it for an upcoming parade, I believe. He mentioned having seen a few more parts for the car around, and went looking for them. He came back a short while later and said he'd found them and to follow him. We walked into a storage/maintenance room and there on the floor was the restored flat tail as had been on the car from 1936 until at least 1941! I asked if I could set it on my frame, and the museum director Judy ok'd my request. To say that it was exciting was an understatement. It fits the frame shape perfectly, and all 6 bolt holes line up! So, I'm back to more aggressively hunting for information to piece together the ownership history of these rails, now that I feel a bit more confident that I'm correct about their identity. Oh, I've also recently picked up a chrome Model A banjo center section, and have a taper-leaf model T rear spring on the way. If anyone has a set of chrome Model A axle tubes, I'm on the hunt! Hopefully I'll have some more updates before too long!
Wow! I mean you had me at chromed frame, and I have been watching your thread from a distance but that tail piece lining up...
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