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Technical Are these Ladder Bars mounted upside-down?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Moedog07, Aug 24, 2021.

  1. Moedog07
    Joined: Apr 11, 2011
    Posts: 506

    Moedog07
    Member

    I am looking at buying an abandoned '27 roadster project. It's a few hours away from me and I am studying the photos I received before making the drive.

    My question is if the ladder bars are welded on the wrong side of the axle? Seems like the mount should hang down from the axle and not go above it. Let me know if I am looking at this all wrong.

    Also should the bars have mounting tabs lower that the frame and not through it?

    Screenshot_20210824-225742_Facebook.jpg Screenshot_20210824-225712_Facebook.jpg
     
  2. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 23,757

    Deuces

    :confused: .......Yep!
     
    chevy57dude, lo c dan and fauj like this.
  3. Looks like they may have done that so they didn't have to have a dropped front bar mount. It may play havoc with the rear suspension geometry and handling.
     
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  4. Rickybop
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 9,606

    Rickybop
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Looks like he was trying to tuck everything out of the way. And maybe out of sight.

    I'm not defending the design. Just asking. Will this not actually work?
     
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  5. Mimilan
    Joined: Jun 13, 2019
    Posts: 1,230

    Mimilan
    Member

    Nope!
    A ladder bar [2-link suspension] is an "imaginary straight line" between the axle centreline and the front pivot point.
    It has the front pivots in an extreme "anti-squat" position.

    I would be more concerned about parallel ladder bars on the street not allowing for bodyroll
     
  6. fiftyv8
    Joined: Mar 11, 2007
    Posts: 5,394

    fiftyv8
    Member
    from CO & WA

    Probably not the preferred way of doing it and looks like the bracket may bottom out on the floor later.
    Also looks to be a hell of a pinion angle there!!!
     
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  7. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 14,802

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Are they going to hit the rear cross member.
    It appears that the top mounts will hit whats ever going to mount on the top of the frame.
    To me they are too short.

    On a side note, if that’s an 8.8, a standard yoke/snout is available.
     
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  8. Moedog07
    Joined: Apr 11, 2011
    Posts: 506

    Moedog07
    Member

    Rickybop I wondered if there was a reason for it, such as keeping the suspension tucked in under the body or was it just someone slapping parts together.

    Fauj I also was concerned with how well it would work (drive) if left as is. I can't determine the coilover location as is. Is it going to ride roughly or be dangerous.

    I'm adding up the man-hours in correcting the suspension into the purchase price.
     
  9. twenty8
    Joined: Apr 8, 2021
    Posts: 2,318

    twenty8
    Member

    Is the rear end in upside-down ??? You might find it drives backwards..............:eek::eek::eek:
    Not to mention that I wouldn't even grace that with the word "geometry".
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2021
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  10. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,942

    squirrel
    Member

    the rear is right side up, since the pinion center line is below the axle center line.
     
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  11. Moedog07
    Joined: Apr 11, 2011
    Posts: 506

    Moedog07
    Member

    I originally thought it was upside down too. The vent tube and brake lines appear to be on top of the axle.
     
    twenty8 likes this.
  12. Looks like an old TCI frame, some drag race bars and less than 1/2 an idea.
     
  13. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,264

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The front hairpins are just as bad.
     
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  14. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,264

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Less than a quarter of an idea.

    Look at the front geometry.
     
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  15. twenty8
    Joined: Apr 8, 2021
    Posts: 2,318

    twenty8
    Member

    If the parts are good, think of it only as parts. It will all need to be blown apart and rebuilt from scratch.
     
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  16. bchctybob
    Joined: Sep 18, 2011
    Posts: 5,190

    bchctybob
    Member

    ^^^^ Yep, what he said.
    They are not bad parts but I would carefully cut it all apart and reassemble it paying more attention to the intended use and proper geometry.
     
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  17. Joe H
    Joined: Feb 10, 2008
    Posts: 1,525

    Joe H
    Member

    It's missing a cross bar of some sort to keep the axle from going sideways. Ladder bars alone won't hold it.
     
  18. Stan Back
    Joined: Mar 9, 2007
    Posts: 2,179

    Stan Back
    Member
    from California

    "Some" of that might get slightly corrected with the body and engine weight on it.
     
  19. 1971BB427
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 8,719

    1971BB427
    Member
    from Oregon

    There's plenty wrong with all the suspension setups, but all fixable at this point. Just depends on the asking rice, and if you want to rip it all out, and make it correct. I'd do so in a second if the price was right.
     
  20. If Stevie Wonder built a hot rod.....
     
  21. Those are short drag race type ladder bars, the instant center is at the front mount. Agree the bars should be mounted opposite below the rearend, and it absolutely requires a panhard bar or a diagonal link (many drag race ladder bars use this. Not so good for the street. Ideally the bars should be longer and angle in towards the center to allow body roll. With the short parallel bars as they are you effectively have a 3 inch diameter sway bar in the back. Front may be also as bad, hard to see much in the pictures, besides it doesn't look good.
    For sure you should consider it as requiring work and just parts that may be best to sell off and get better ones for the rebuild. Like some Pete and Jakes style bars.
     
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  22. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 7,589

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    I saw the same things Jim.

    Also the front hairpins, the lower bar on the hair pins should be parallel to the ground, not at the extreme angle they are at.

    I think with tis project there's a lot of re-engineering required.
     
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  23. Andy
    Joined: Nov 17, 2002
    Posts: 5,117

    Andy
    Member

    What is holding it up? I don’t see any jack stands but the rear is off the axle The whole thing is a mess.
     
    Budget36 likes this.
  24. I think the rear crossmember is resting on the back of the ladder bar brackets.

    The more I look, the worse it is.
     
  25. Moedog07
    Joined: Apr 11, 2011
    Posts: 506

    Moedog07
    Member

    Here are the front suspension pictures. The asking is around 2k for the Body, rolling frame, & steering box. It has some type of disc brakes on the front. No rear springs were mentioned by the seller. It does appear the rear is resting on the mounting plates and frame.

    Screenshot_20210825-182832_Facebook.jpg Screenshot_20210825-182823_Facebook.jpg Screenshot_20210825-182811_Facebook.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2021
    55 Ford Gasser likes this.
  26. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 13,174

    Budget36
    Member

    If the parts and pieces you want are there, buy the darned thing.

    I respect that negotiating may be different in your country, but I’d send you down the road if you were to try to negotiate with me, based on the labor you have to put into what I’m selling.
    I’m happy to negotiate don’t get me wrong, but I passed on selling a truck to a guy that drove up from SoCal (about 350 miles away) and he wanted to negotiate because of his “long drive”.
    And that was when I was younger and more understanding;)
     
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  27. Andy
    Joined: Nov 17, 2002
    Posts: 5,117

    Andy
    Member

    The suspension all needs work. It needs a four bar front and the same in back or some long bars angled in to meet in the center. The front axle, brakes, rear end ,frame, steering box, body, all look useable. I would guess the price is reasonable there but a lot more work is needed.
     
  28. If you buy it correct the suspension issues. It appears to have quality parts and frame. definitely in the correct time to repair what is all wrong. Don't mention it to the seller as it might insult them. Then again mention how it is all wrong and needs redone correctly and the work involved to do it right. Offer what the parts are worth and see what they say.
     
  29. What's there will cover the $2000, as long as you know going in that you're gonna be redoing all of it. I bet if it was put together correctly, $2000 wouldn't touch it
     
  30. Mimilan
    Joined: Jun 13, 2019
    Posts: 1,230

    Mimilan
    Member

    mgtstumpy and gimpyshotrods like this.

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