Technical ***July 2021 Banger Meet Thread - Happy 4 Cylinders!***

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=230632

 

The only American made Ford from 40-50 , with a four speed was a flathead V8 , truck . They had a very low first gear , ratio depending on how big the truck is, but all absolutely useless for a hotrod, you would only ever use 2,3 and 4.Pretty sure they have straight cut gears , no synchros .
The 30s trucks had the same, early 30s also had a torque tube, and some of those up to 1934 will bolt up to a banger, but they are just as useless in a hotrod.
The option mentioned above will work and you can keep your torque tube. If you decide to adapt something else and convert to open drive ,do not make the mistake of using the Model A rear radius rods to take the driveline forces and keep the rear end aligned. They are not designed for that , they will collapse and break.
You can also use the early Volvo 4 speed from 140 and 240 series, you can even use their 4 speed with overdrive attached if you are prepared to do a bit of extra work. They can be used open drive or converted to closed ( torque tube) , and they are relatively easy to find quite cheap in Europe. There are several threads here on the HAMB by UK and European hotrodders.

 

Top loader V8 3 speeds,synchro 2nd and 3rd, '78' case,dual detent shift tower with swan neck shift lever..ratios? all kinds, Clings aftermarket makes a kit,bell housing adapter,wish bone and clutch shaft.
Uses 'A' torque tube with a V8 clamshell..lincoln zephyr gears are bad ass,some of the stock ford ratios are good...you can even rock stock A ratios...all with synchro 2nd and 3rd..they are for the cat who doesn't want to run aluminum late model 5 speed crap.
To me,nothing kills a model a like a T 5 tremec piece of late model shit..

 

Yes but all the 78s are in your shed! Actually I agree, ....or use the Model A box and learn to double de clutch..... there is another way too, all the V8 gears will fit and work in a B case with some careful "machining" and you don't need all of the Clings stuff.

I have removed incorrect information , should have checked myself.
Macspeed do NOT make a Model A engine to V8 gearbox bellhousing!

 

I run an A box,its a street car,no racing. It adds to the experience, driving spur gear box..nowadays its the best anti theft device there is..

 

Hi , thank you for your help - I could modify the A to take a modern gear box but did really want to keep it " period" and I knew this was the correct place to ask .I intend racing it with the four banger and I know slicker gear shifts would help ,I didn`t know about the new gearbox that was available and although costly ,being in the UK it is more than likely the most cost effective way of keeping most things stock and having the luxury of higher gearing.

 

Whats your thoughts on running a 39 ford box, with a clings adapter? They make kits to mount the stock pedals and everything.

 

Welp, it rolls! Realistically, I just need to find an A steering column, have the spindle steering arms dropped, install rear brakes, and install the new engine!
Petes Speed Shop in AUS graciously sponsored the bronze intake and throttle arm, and Belond sponsored the exhaust so this things going to be a monster!!

 

The Zipper has a ‘39 transmission and the ‘29 CCPU has a T-5 behind a B block with a CRAGAR. The ‘29 is much more pleasant to drive and is easier on the engine. Note the reinforced cross member

 

For me living in the UK finding a 39 box then getting the kit would probably work out with the costs being similar.I don`t know about availability in the USA of a 39 box but even if I found someone in the USA that would ship one the import cost would be huge!.As an example I bought an item from a USA supplier that cost $290 including shipping-my import duty was £69 + £12 fee I have to pay our postal service .I stopped buying parts for my Indian Chief from USA and Canada because I felt that I was funding the British Government !!!!!

 

I run a stock A box in my Coupe and Tourer - the Tourer has a close ratio gear set.
I've been known to race both...

 

Took the Coupe to Pendine again.
Fresh build on an old babbit bottom end. 60 thou over, ported, new 1.5" valves, Stipe 340 cam and a Brierley head.
3.27 gears and 600 x 19" Michelins gave an easy cruising speed around 55-65 mph laden with spares and tools at around 23-25mpg. Proper sized gallons though.

Thirteen hour cross country back roads drive down through the Cotswolds, followed by a bit of Herefordshire before dropping down and picking up our normal A40 route from Brecon. Although four hours of that was a brewery tour and breakfast at Hook Norton. 295 miles door to caravan door. Had planned to do the Black Mountains. Ah well, next year.

Thursday was a rest day and a trip to find a motor factors for some oil as the rear main has become incontinent.
Friday - setting up the scrutineering, unloading fences, and hanging about being useful. Stayed up till 11 trying to help a Spanish bloke sort his zero rear suspension to no avail.

Saturday we were on the beach from 9am, traps all set up but then the run-off area was soft and we had to redo the traps to point them out to sea. I managed two runs - gentle set off for 73.4 and it was still accelerating through the traps. Second run, more aggressive start and it went flat just before the traps for 73.8. Turns out the head gasket had blown.

Fitted my spare Saturday night so decided not to run on Sunday. Track set up was the best we'd ever had. Firm, flat, wide and perfectly straight.

We started running cars through as the beach drained, but midday it started to rain and the track just got wetter and became boggy so we had to call it early. Ten hour drive home in a four car convoy was trouble free bar checking the oil leak consumption - last two hours on my lonesome.

Cheers to John Isaac for a couple of photos including one showing how much the vinyl roof inflates at speed ...

 

Got drunk ,left the reservation...figure if I keep drinking I wont sober up and face reality of the foolish thing I've done..

 

Oh Dear, that's gunna be heavy/slow with a banger! You are forgiven as long as you keep the coupe! Everybody needs a truck!

 

I’m reworking the firewall on my ‘29 CCPU and have to turn the coil sideways for clearance for the CRAGAR valve cover. I know there is some controversy on upside down coils. Any thoughts on mounting it sideways? It is an F&S 12v oil. Thanks in advance for your input.

 

Dennis, there are epoxy filled coils that don't have oil, so the orientation of the oil does not matter.
Phred

 

FS says their coils are matched to their ignitions when delivered, I would ask FS themselves .

 

Got a 312 Y block industrial engine that ran on propane its entire life for free from a trade in at work..even though I left the rez Im still a member of the cheap ass model a tribe..

 

Only if you have 4 different brands of tires on your truck...if you can't check that box, you aren't one

 

Bosch blue Vw coils designed to run inverted, so sideways isn't an issue. 32k v total discharge..Ive heard the FSI matched coil claim, but I don't understand why they recommend it, petronix primary ignition systems adapt to any coil. I ran a bosch blue with my FSI without a problem.,Biggest issue with petronix is a clear ground and voltage signal in my opinion.

 

Only the finest dumpster dive behind the tire shop maypops for me.."they may pop, they may not"

 

Called F&S today and was going to just pop for an epoxy filled coil. After hearing about the upgrades, went for the matched coil, new module and cloth covered plug wires. My distributor was originally built by Mickey Remund and he sold to F&S in 2003!

 

Bonneville
I thought that some one might want to talk to some one there about 4 Bangers while there during Speed Week. My daughter and I will be there for setup and she does the pre inspections, PM me or look her up in the registration/inspection 6' redhead. If you can get into the pits, I will be with Pete Aardema, he is the guy that has gone 245 with a model A 4 banger, see you there!
Steve

 

I'll be there, bringing a couple bangers,

J

 

Damn, I wish. If I leave NZ now there is no return this year....Covid 19 all spots in the isolation facilities are booked until next year!
Maybe next year.
I thought Pete Aardema fabricated his own banger that looks like a Model A motor but is made from plate steel?

 

A modern model A?

 

That's what I call 30-31s, ...... "modern As", the Aussies call them New Improved As or just Improved As, which makes them too new for me! 32s are way too modern(and expensive) and as for those swoopy futuristic 33s and 34s, well they are just science fiction! ( and even more expensive). I will stick to my 28-29s , old junk no one else cares about!

 

He ran in a vintage class, had to use a real Model A block, turned 245 twice set the record but was protested even though he adhered to all the rules. He destroked the engine to 180 cu. in., he didn't want argue the point said keep the record, I did what I said I would do. The car is in the Speedy Bill Museum, I really don't know where the engine is today.

The engine you are thinking about that was covered by Hot Rod Magazine is referred to as the "Sheet Metal" engine, it is a 3 liter DOHC that he built from scratch using plate and tubing, has set several records with it. He and his machinist have built quite a few of various "Sheet Metal" engine from replacement Allison/Rolls Royce replacements to the latest small V-12 he will run this year at Bonneville. After we get together on the Salt and he says it is Ok maybe I can explain what they have done.
Steve

 

Hope we can get together, enjoy talking to you and looking at your accomplishments, keep up the good work.
Steve

 

I dunno if this is feasible, but you could look at Mk111 or 1V Zephyr or Zodiac four speeds! I have seen them behind various later V8s and they seem to handle it.
I know they are also later model, and I have no idea if they are readily available in the UK these days. I have seen a Model A gearbox here in NZ fitted with Mk11 Zephyr gears . Can't remember why he did it and don't know who has that box now... was a long time ago , and the guy who did it is long gone .
It would be fun to watch someone pull it down expecting to see the Model A gears inside!
Maybe the Mk111 four speed could be fitted into the A case? Lot of work!