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Hot Rods Lathe

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by flatford39, Jul 5, 2021.

  1. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 4,217

    ekimneirbo

    For those of you who want a bigger lathe and have to deal with the 3 phase motor.

    My 30 year old (bought brand new) Enco Mill is 3 phase. I made a phase converter for it and it has served me well all this time. If you balance the inputs with capacitors properly, the converter can start on its own. Basically you just need another small motor, some capacitors, an electric enclosure of some kind. It would work fine for a lathe too, but don't recommend them for an air compressor because they will be running all the time while the compressor isn't.
    I converted my 15" Lathe to single phase. It took a 7 1/2 HP motor that wasn't cheap. Think I gave about $400 back then. If I was doing it today I would buy a VFD (Variable Frequency Drive) for about $200. It allows you not only to convert for driving the 3 phase motor, but to actually vary the speed of the motor.
    I usually don't recommend any of the Asian made machines. Getting parts for them often means junking them. Anyway, a not to distant dealer for Jet had some "damaged in shipment" new lathes. My son bought one that was pretty complete and had a really nice Digital readout with it. Supposedly the DR was worth what we gave for the lathe. The motor was the damaged item. Well, here is a brand new Asian lathe, and I wondered why the dealer didn't just order a new motor for it. The answer was ......they were unobtainable. New lathe and you can't get a replacement motor for it. Turns out that worked in our favor. I had a nice 3HP Industrial Baldour off my converted bandsaw sitting on a shelf. Much better than the 2 HP Asian motor. $200 for a VFD and good to go. Anyone thinking about conveting, I would look at the VFDs as the prices have come down a lot on them. Jet Lathe 2x.JPG
    $1500 Jet Lathe with Digital Readout
    Lathe 2.JPG
    My old 15" Clausing..........millions of shavings and chips later and still going strong.
     
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  2. MeanGene427
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Posts: 2,307

    MeanGene427
    Member
    from Napa

    I have HD static phase converters on the South Bend and Bridgeport, and they work fine, I never miss the extra power. If I replace anything, I will also get a VFD. Buying 3-phase machines can save you a lot of money
     
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  3. I always use my shop vac...
     
  4. e1956v
    Joined: Sep 29, 2009
    Posts: 2,376

    e1956v
    Alliance Vendor

    Since people have been hearing I’m quitting the auto electric rebuilding side of the shop I’ve had a lot of guys stop by to see if I’m letting go of our lathe. It’s going home with me, if it doesn’t fit the garage or I later find I don’t use it as much as I think then I’ll let it go. I’ve used the armature under cutter to cut down gears that are no longer available for speedometers. Hey I just saw the girl in the shot I just took of the lathe, bonus! Gotta love a lathe in front of a downtown window for summer viewing. 00560739-ACE1-4C63-B2F0-87849ED44C76.jpeg 48CB2703-4080-4286-9A53-520E8CA99D14.jpeg C20C70FF-7B13-4FAD-8BC0-5A748AB5FA13.jpeg 2A97D7A4-6600-43F6-AA80-1BDC594893F3.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2021
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  5. Kiwi 4d
    Joined: Sep 16, 2006
    Posts: 3,564

    Kiwi 4d
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    As an aside. I was in a tool supply shop yesterday and they were ordering a lathe for a customer , found out it wont be available till September 2022 , yikes ridiculous . They wont even have built the cars yet that they need to melt for scrap to build it in China.
     
  6. Kevin Ardinger
    Joined: Aug 31, 2019
    Posts: 778

    Kevin Ardinger
    Member

    I had a 10 inch atlas lathe that worked ok. Problem is those craftsman/atlas lathes is that they are not very rigid. They are kind of just a step above a wood lathe. I would opt for a larger South Bend or other brand that is more noted for being a metal lathe. None of the feed options on that little atlas lathe work well. Too sloppy in my opinion.
     
  7. big john d
    Joined: Nov 24, 2011
    Posts: 366

    big john d
    Member
    from ma

    that is the same lathe i have can you tell me which tool post you have and where you got it thanks john
     
  8. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 6,442

    Boneyard51
    Member

    That Clausing you have is the exact same machine I ran for two years! Loved that machine, I was in the rework department! Had a lot of so called machinists that were making junk parts, the company put on a second shift for rework! We won’t mention the reason for the junk parts...... loved that machine!








    Bones
     
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  9. Plasmaman
    Joined: Jul 12, 2021
    Posts: 41

    Plasmaman

    In a previous life, I bought and sold used machinery out of a ship container to make a few extra $. I kept the stuff I liked most, at least for a time. During that period, I owned both Clausing and Rockwell 12" x 36" lathes, and preferred the Clausing. Both of them were perhaps 60's or early '70s vintage. I also owned early Logan and Powermatic lathes of similar size and liked both. I owned a number of South Bend lathers up to 10L in size. I never came across or acquired any imports at that time.

    The Clausing I owned had hardened and ground ways. While the ways on all of mine were in good shape, I managed to inspect dozens of others that were not. The most frequently found flaws aside from missing or damaged gears and/or bearings were:

    The hardened and ground ways would have chunks missing from chucks and heavy stock having fallen on them. Non-hardened ways would have dents around the headstock area, and worn areas from the headstock out to a foot or more. You could catch your fingernails on the ridges.

    Lead screws had thinned thread areas mostly from about 6" from the headstock out to a couple of feet or more.

    Substantial run-out in the spindle, or a seized spindle (particularly in early South Bends with the spindle running directly on cast iron)

    Worn or mis-sized tailstocks with shims under them

    Rough or damaged cross-slide or compound slide ways

    Tooling that doesn't fit the lathe

    For all that is good about vintage American made machinery, buying it is very much a shot in the dark. Even if you get to inspect it, you have to know what to look for. Not withstanding all that, if you can find a good piece, or if you have the skill and patience to rebuild one, it is a joy to own.

    South Bend 9A.jpg
     
  10. MeanGene427
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Posts: 2,307

    MeanGene427
    Member
    from Napa

    When I got my big South Bend, the gentleman who had bought out Berkeley Pump's machine shop when they outsourced had 3 of them, all painted pea green. He says take your pick, look 'em over. The ways on two of them were all beat up and seriously worn, but the third was in nice shape, maybe the spare or just out in the shop corner? They hooked up their big 3-phase umbilical to it, and everything worked perfectly, nice n tight- I'll take that one!
     
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  11. continentaljohn
    Joined: Jul 24, 2002
    Posts: 5,506

    continentaljohn
    Member

    I have a 11x56 Sheldon turret lathe and its a wonderful piece of equipment. I have used many different lathes in my toolmaking career . I recommend good old American machines and a good size machine. I had a Logan and south bend but thru hole was small and chasing threads was more difficult but good machines. Yes look at condition of ways and it will tell you a machines history and care.
     
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  12. Marty Strode
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 8,801

    Marty Strode
    Member

    My first lathe was a very old (flat belt drive) 19 X 72 Sidney. About 18 years ago, I bought this 18 X 60, American Turn Master, that had been sitting outside, sometimes covered with snow, for 2 years. It's 10 hp and has a 3" head stock hole, and I power it with a 15 hp pump motor, converted to a rotary phase converter. I am not a machinist, but I am slowly learning. IMG_7385.JPG
     
  13. pnevells
    Joined: Sep 5, 2008
    Posts: 546

    pnevells
    Member

    I have a similar Clausing , couldn't get along without it thumbnail_20161120_113933.jpg
     
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  14. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 23,756

    Deuces

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  15. Marty Strode
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 8,801

    Marty Strode
    Member

    Or a flak jacket !
     
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  16. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 23,756

    Deuces

    Yeah, look at the big ol' chips he's cutting.....:confused::rolleyes:
     
  17. continentaljohn
    Joined: Jul 24, 2002
    Posts: 5,506

    continentaljohn
    Member

    So much wrong with this picture and safety is not a concern . I also noticed long sleeves with big chips not good.. I had my sleeves rolled up on my flannel shirt and when a chip grabbed it had my sleeve ripped off as the lathe tried to pull me in. I had a bad bruise forearm rug burn and was very lucky...

     
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  18. MeanGene427
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Posts: 2,307

    MeanGene427
    Member
    from Napa

    Yep, probably WWII era- the thing I like least about the old South Bends like mine, is the on-off switch is mounted on a stalk on the back, so you have to reach over the work to get to it- needs a kill button on the front. The Bridgeport could use a hot button, too, as the original switch is way up top...
     
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  19. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 4,217

    ekimneirbo

    I think the thing with stuff this size is that it turns VERY slowly during the machining process due to its mass. Still need safety glasses though. I had my safety glasses broken by an N/C machine that spit a drill bit out because the programmer put a decimal point in the wrong place.....so I'm a believer.

    I remember that during the oil embargo we had to cut back on heat in the big buildings. We had to operate the machines with our coats and even gloves on. Saw this picture recently about a guy who had on a long sleve shirt.
    Machines are our friends, but you have to be cautious.
    Lathe injury.jpeg
     
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  20. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 4,217

    ekimneirbo

    One other tidbit..........Rumor has it that in the old days, when hiring machinists, companies used to ask the applicants to hold up their hands. Then they hired the guys who were missing fingers first. Figured they would be the employees that wouldn't need to be reminded about working safely anymore. Never confirmed it though.
     
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  21. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 23,756

    Deuces

    I still have all 21 of my digits....:):rolleyes:
     
  22. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 19,144

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    That may be fine in home shops and yes I recommend it but in a lot of production shops that would never fly, at least where I worked.
    Much of our machinery had been rode hard, some had tags on them from multiple military branches.
     
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  23. 34 5W Paul
    Joined: Mar 27, 2020
    Posts: 308

    34 5W Paul
    Member
    from Fresno CA

    Ouch. That's hard to look at. I found an Atlas "Light 10" 10x36 with quite a bit of tooling decades ago and bought it. Have not ever regretted it. I did add the quick change turret tool holder, a good mod; I use the lathe all the time, even for stuff you would never imagine you would.

    Narrowed a 9", made all my own fixtures to keep the axle ends and the bearing bores in the carrier in alignment. Pulleys, pulley spacers, accessory spacers. Sure you can buy 'em but why? Easily quickly fabricated. Even if you did buy the spacer, you'd probably have to turn it to the correct thickness.

    I converted a C4 from thrust bushings to full roller on my little lathe. Sure, I've wished for a larger, more powerful lathe dozens of times, but for 98% of what I'd ever do, this one is plenty.

    Don't have any alignment dowels handy? Fab 'em up quickly. Welder, lathe and a bearing press, once you have them, you wonder how you did anything without them. Specialty tools are a recurring need. Speaking of the press, don't have the right pusher, cut one quickly on the lathe. Rebuilt a 4sp auto tranny, fabbed all the specialty stuff on the lathe.

    5246868686550481457.jpg
     
  24. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 4,217

    ekimneirbo

    Definitely don't want to get that extra one wrapped in a machine..................
     
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  25. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 13,174

    Budget36
    Member

    Freak!!!!
     
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  26. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 4,217

    ekimneirbo

    I thought he meant that one "extra" thing we all have and don't want to lose................
     
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  27. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 13,174

    Budget36
    Member

    Ya, I realized later but figured to late to edit;)
     
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  28. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 23,756

    Deuces

  29. jnaki
    Joined: Jan 1, 2015
    Posts: 9,292

    jnaki





    Hello,

    Any size of lathe is good. We were lucky as we were taught the basics of using a machine shop size lathe in our Metal Shop during high school. Back then, it was just as important to have Industrial Arts as a course to develop skills for working in the industry. Not everyone has to go to college, although the local two year college has a great Industrial Arts Program.

    But, in most high schools, Metal Shop/ Auto Shop are dinosaurs and have seen its days. There are very few Metal Shop classes in the curriculum. The Long Beach Unified School District still offers a course guideline in Industrial Arts as a full curriculum. Then the local City College continues the advanced courses. So, there is hope, yet.


    It was fun to learn and although we did not follow in the footsteps as some of our friends that went into the industrial side of the curriculum, some pretty good machinists came out of the program. But, we all learned on those huge industrial size lathes.

    Jnaki

    My most fun moments came from using a industrial size lathe in college, that was part of an Art Elective Class. It was the most fun class I ever took in all of my college years. (Except for the one class where I met my wife.) My goal was to be able to make a Moon Disc for household wall decorations. I learned the proper way to make the pattern, use the shaping tool and create some interesting pieces.

    The large Moon Disc looked good, but compared to the original versions, not so much. Eventually, I got an “A” because I took the large disc and made a 7 inch domed lid for another spun aluminum matching disc bowl. It was a coffee table candy or other necessary items that could be covered and put on display. The two spun items were dipped in some custom art designs using rubber cement and acid.


    Get the lathe, read the safety stuff, and learn to do all sorts of things from your project list. You can do most stuff, but just in smaller proportions. See what the maximum limit would be for the chuck and tool usage. That would help you make decisions about the size of your future projects. YRMV
     
  30. morepower
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 73

    morepower
    Member
    from northeast

    A few things to take into consideration:
    • You can machine small stuff on a big lathe, but not big stuff on a small lathe.
    • Tooling costs can quickly exceed the value of the machine. Buy a fully equipped set up.
    • Avoid machines with fancy repaints or are super clean. A lathe well oiled shows proper maintenance.
    • Quick change gears for ease of use.
    • Get the book "How to Run a Lathe" published by South Bend.
    Speaking of South Bend, a good all around machine is their Heavy 10. I wouldn't go with anything smaller.

    Good luck!
     

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