Projects 65 ford econoline, rear wheels wont fit over rotor + caliper after 4-wheel disc brake converstion.

So the title gives the general idea, but let me cover the details. I just looking for ideas or to know what peoples thoughts are as far as how best to proceed.

Im working on restoring an old 65 ford econoline van. Right now Im converting all 4 wheels from drum brakes to disc brakes. I got the front wheels done no problem using these rotors and these calipers with a weld-on bracket from speedway.

Then when I got to the rear wheels. I welded a caliper bracket that I fabricated myself, using these rotors and calipers that I got off amazon, but for some reason the product page now returns a 404 error. They were listed as "Callahan CCK04937 [2] REAR Premium Original Brake Calipers + Ceramic Pads + Hardware [fit Ford Explorer Flex Taurus MKT]" and here is the link in case it works for anyone else.

Anyway, after spending several days getting the calipers fabricated, fitted right, getting everything positioned and the relationships between the rotors, calipers, and brackets all correct, and welding the brackets onto the rear axle housing... I realized that the wheels will not fit over the rotor and caliper. How I failed to realize this at any point before today, I dont know. Im an idiot. The wheels will fit over the rotor by itself, but with the caliper on, too, its a fraction of an inch too big.

The wheels themselves are, I think, custom. I dont know for sure because the man I bought the van from, bought it from someone else 40+ years ago, and then it sat in his garage for the last 30 years, so he doesnt have 100% of all the info.
The reason I think theyre custom is because, they have these sort of... sleeves? that fit over the lugs, and essentially act as larger, wider lugs. See attached pictures to see what I mean.
I believe they are 14" wheels, but to be 100% honest Im not sure if Im measuring right. I just took a tape measure and measured from one side of the inside of the back of the wheel to the other.



These are the lugs and the "sleeves" on the hub in the original drum brakes. As I said Ive switched them to disc brakes, but its still the same size lugs in the hub, and then the "sleeves" that go over them once the Rotor is put on. The wheel itself slips over the "sleeves" on the lugs, and then the lug nuts screw onto the "sleeves." I hope that makes sense.

View attachment 5111045

This is the best picture of the wheels themselves that I have on hand at the moment. Ill take better photos (along with any measurements anyone wants to know) next time I head out to my workshop.

So... yeah. I majorly screwed up here and Im not quite sure how to proceed. One option is to get larger wheels for the rear, but thats a big cost I wasnt planning on, and Im not sure if larger wheels might screw anything up if the van was "intended" to run with these size wheels. I would also then be left with larger wheels on the rear than in the front, which Im not sure is allowed and also isnt really the look I want.

Another option would be to find smaller rotors, and modify the existing caliper mount brackets so that the caliper is closer to the center to fit the smaller rotors. Im very hesitant to do this, as I would have to drill new holes for the mounting bolts, and those holes would either be very close to, or downright overlap with, the old holes, which is just asking for trouble.

I briefly thought of seeing if I could modify the calipers themselves to make them fit, but that sounded like a horrible idea as it would be compromising the structural integrity of the calipers.

so... yeah. What do you guys think? Whats my best option here? Any ideas?

MODERATORS NOTE - THE WHEEL PICTURE IS OFF TOPIC AND REMOVED FROM YOUR POST.

 

Those are Appliance wheels from the mid 70s.

 

hi...where are you? In the US, or elsewhere?

Anyways....in case you haven't read the important information about how this place works, be advised that wheels of that type (70s-80s style) are off topic for this place.

The best thing to do would be to find some decent looking wheels, that fit. Stock steel wheels might, if you get some that are 15", and are designed for disc brakes.

 

Believe it, or not but grinding calipers for clearance is a very common thing in the 4x4 world. I have done it dozens of times.

My rock rig had over 200,000-miles on calipers that were ground, on all four corners. As it turns out, I did not die!

My actual ride:



Some from the interwebs:


You only need about 1/16 of clearance.

I used to be big in the 4x4 community. There are thousands of rigs running ground calipers. I have yet to hear of anyone having an issue.

 

Oh, and I almost forgot, the 6-piston Wilwood calipers on the front of my Falcon are ground, too, but that was for rotor hat clearance. Zero issues there, too.

 

Im in the US. Pennsylvania.

I read the rules and Im a bit confused as to how this is off topic. The van is a '65, and the rules say this board is for '65 and older vehicles. I wasnt aware that the wheels themselves were newer than that until being told so in this thread, but even so, the van itself is a '65, and this post is about the whole situation with the van and what wheels would be right, rather than those 70's wheels specifically. Does the fact that one small part of the equation involves newer wheels mean the whole discussion is off topic? or is the discussion of wheels and caliper clearance and my situation in general ok, but just leave out the current wheels? (not trying to argue, just asking for clarification.)

I dont think there are any stock wheels for this that are designed for disc brakes. To the best of my knowledge, the econoline wasnt made with disc brakes at all in the 60's, so any stock wheels meant for this vehicle would only be designed for drum brakes. Please correct me if Im mistaken on that.

Thats interesting! I would kind of be concerned about grinding them too thin though. How much thickness do you need to be safe? I can get some pictures of the calipers mounted on the rotors and whatnot next time Im out at my workshop if that helps. I supposed I would also still have the front brakes even if something did go wrong with the rear calipers, but Im still kinda wary about messing with them. I feel like I might have to remove too much to make them fit.

 

This place is kind of touchy about wheels...threads have been deleted for wheels being too modern....

It takes a while to get a feel for how this place operates. I was just letting you know, since you're new here.

That's right...so put the drum brakes back on the van! but seriously, there are two basic designs of wheels, those for drum brakes, and those for disc brakes. The disc brake wheels are shaped differently to clear the rotor. Not long after the HAMB era (which ends mid 60s), many cars got disc brakes as original equipment, and so later wheels are designed to clear the brakes. And you can get new 15" steel wheels with the correct bolt pattern to fit the Econoline, that should clear the brakes. You can get used wheels, as well, but they're getting harder to find these days.

If the clearance issue is slight, as he said, you can grind the caliper some. We really can't tell how close it is to fitting. We also don't know what size the wheels are, nor what size wheel the brakes are designed to work with. And we don't know if the wheels you have were designed to work with disc brakes. Some old aluminum wheels are, some are not. And those wheels are NOT original to the van, I hope you realize.

 

If you want to keep the wheels, I would just put the drums back on, I bet you won’t die having drums on the rear. As said above I too have ground calipers to allow wheels to fit but we don’t know how much room you need.

 

Why don't you check to see what size the wheels are. That may explain why they don't fit.

 

Echoing a bit of the above, you probably just need to find 15" wheels

 

Not allowed? By who? I need to know who's in charge of wheel sizes around here.

 

With the price of 14 inch tires plus the lack of available sizes I would change to 15" or 16" wheels.

 

Good to know about the modern-ness issue. Duly noted.

Unfortunately I cant put the drum brakes back on, as Ive already welded the caliper brackets to the axle housing.
And yeah, now I realize the wheels arent original. I wasnt sure before this thread.

By the state of Pennsylvania, lol. I know that it was, at some point, illegal to have different size wheels on the front than the rear. IDK what exactly the laws are right now, so IDK if I would be allowed. And Id rather avoid different size wheels, as its not the look Im going for. If I did go the route of getting larger wheels for the rear, Id have to get the same size for the front as well.

 

The exists a near infinite variety of wheels in steel. You could easily find a nice set.

 

There also exist cutting torches and grinders....stuff being welded in place, is not the end of the world.

 

It seems like a simple fix to me, and maybe not planned for, but not a huge expense either to go to 16" wheels. Steel wheels might not be what you want for your Econoline, but might be an inexpensive temporary fix until you can afford what you really want. My local wrecking yard sells them for $15-$25 each for tires and wheels, so that's what I'd do in the interim.
A set of American Torq Thrust TTO's are under $500 a set for brand new 15" if you wanted an old school look, and not break the bank either.

 

Oh I know it can be done, I just dont know if I really trust myself enough to do it without screwing it up somehow and ruining the whole rear end. I feel like Id cut a bit too far or grind a bit too deep or some such, and then end up with a situation where the brackets are cut off so I cant do disc brakes AND the housing is screwed up so I cant do drum brakes either, and then Id have to replace the whole thing.

 

Well....maybe you need to spend some time seeing how much interference there is, and perhaps doing some measuring and shopping for some different wheels.

Big and little wheels are pretty common on modified cars over the decades. And there is at least one car that came with them quite different sizes, from the factory, although it's off topic here. 17s up front, 20 in back.

 

My 57 Plymouth has an Econoline axel on it. I used The Streetrod Manufacturing Company. Their disc kit works great on the front and they might have a solution for your rears as well.

 

After reading all this, William Shakespeare's 500 year old play "Much Ado About Nothing"
comes to mind. I can understand you not wanting to undo everything you've done so far,
and I can see not wanting to drop more money on other wheels, but these fellows have
given you some options to consider. I know that for a while (at least the '70s) Pennsylvania
was finicky about modifying cars, but it's highly doubtful that a cop is going to stop to
check diameters, unless it's something that comes up in state inspections. And a way to
beat that is to simply run the same diameter front and rear. No forward rake involved
and you won't slip forward through the windshield. Don't want spokes or slots on the
van? Also understandable. I would think something like a 6-7" rim with an F-70x15 tire
(or equivalent) would be the ticket. You're going to have to make a concession or two
and a decision on your own to get rolling again. To me, it sounds like a great little
project. I was part of the GREAT VAN SCARE of the 70's and you couldn't swing a dead
cat without hitting an early Econoline that was tricked out. Stock appearing should be
relatively easy.

I would have suggested taking the van to a friendly tire shop and pay someone to
measure things accurately but it sounds like you're stuck. You don't know anyone
with a 15" Ford spare that you could try?