Technical Ford V8 Flathead 4 main bearing convertion

Im a Brit who loves the beer !!

 

To give some ideas of what's already taking place even though your thinking out of the box on your own in hopes of blazing a new trail with four mains.
I have been running two 8BA Ford flathead blocks with five main assembly's with outstanding results but only with our ARDUN conversions. All of the machine work needed plus figuring out how to oil the new mains as well as how to attach everything to the flathead block and every other item needed to make this all work with record setting results was a father and son project. It took 8 months of almost non stop work to get the engine running then test it and correct any issues that we found. Then the true test was running the engine at Speedweek. Final results 9 runs over 200 MPH with a new record of 225 MPH which still stands. The two ARDUN engine's will be at Bonneville for this years Speedweek in August. Typical horsepower is well over 600 and torque is well over 500.

Since your thoughts are to build a flathead I will tell you from a huge amount of experience there's no reason to add more mains to the flathead Ford block. My son and I have also devoted an enormous amount of time {years} developing a reliable flathead valve in block combination that's strong enough to hold together under enormous amounts of abuse. Once again our testing of reliability has been at Bonneville the records we have set show there's nothing weak about the three main bearing design.

The big secret is not really that big of a secret to how the three mains can and do work with well over 400 HP and torque over 450. The crankshaft must be a steel billet and the best money can buy Velasco makes the cranks I run. The next big item of importance is the connecting rods they also must be the best money can buy that's why I use Carrillo steel rods. Cost for these parts is enormous but worth every dollar.

The final important detail on my blocks is how the center main bearing area is strengthened. On my engines you will not see an enormous steel support running along the length of the block. Our testing has proven how little is really needed to hold the center of the block together. The support we use is simple and effective. Here's all that's needed if the internal parts are of good quality.

We build a small support located only along the center of the block using four of the oil pan bolt holes. This support has a steel plate attached to it shaped like a triangle that has a hole in the center towards the top the plate sits on the outside surface of the oil pan. On top of the center main bearing cap we place a steel bar that sits just inside the oil pan. Now a simple cross bolt is added which goes threw the hole in the steel plate located outside of the oil pan threw a hole in the side of the pan that now threads into the side of steel bar sitting on the main bearing cap. With this center support design along with the steel billet crankshaft the center of the Flathead block will hold together. Our testing has proven this to be true.
Ronnieroadster

 

Zurferjoe, my recommendation would be to have Ronnie build you a motor.

 

First of all , thank you very much for this so important information . Thats one job now off the to do list , 4 mains not needed ! As for the strengthening of the crank , would it be possible to send me a sketch of this conversion please . And as for the Ardun setup , I love the idea , but I am busting to tryout my Double Under Head Cam Setup ,and my four 40 DCOE Weber manifolds , or mechanical Injection so as to still be in the VG class .The Ford motor needs to get its revs up a lot to perform , and experiments Ive made on a slave single cylinder flathead engine gave me very promising results For me its the fact I have more time than money and love experimenting on this type of engine .I will also be building another Ford Flat head to run on Hydrogen .As I have been into this kind of development for a few years ,and give the otto engine a few more years before its all electric . Ofcourse this will never happen as Electric vehicles just dont cut it . And never will . As for my project , its first in a road vehicle and then in the Lakester tank setup . I live in hope and am having a great time meeting and corresponding with some of the finest people all over the world , with the same interest as me , so back to the drawing board , thanks a million , Harry

 

I salute Ronnie Roadster for all he's done, including sharing some key information. The fact that he's proven beyond any doubt what is needed for a 650hp flattie to live is invaluable. I don't have a flathead but I'd be fascinated to see the center bearing support (if RR is willing to share it.) Plus some flathead porn of that billet steel crankshaft and other premium bits.
Keep up the drive Zurferjoe/Harry I want to see some build pictures.

 

I still cant see anyway to go to 4 mains.... 5 yes, 4 no. How did you plan to add one more main?

 

Ok Ok ! I cant count !!

 

Everyone loves beer! I always wanted to mount a 2.3 pinto overhead cam head on my flathead. Will not live long enough to get it done. Keep us posted on the progress please

 

As Pete mentioned, the "B" motors get a ton of work.
These are what we are using.

 

I’m in love with the idea of a bolstered up flathead to spin faster. Whether it be extra mains or a beefy girdle.

bump

 

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What is that machine attachment?? Reminds me of a 90* angle head for a Bridgeport

 

Hey ZurferJoe, I'm curious as to if you've done anything with your ideas in this area? This thread is old, but I'm still curious as to where it has taken you? I've been super busy in life, work and with family, so just now seeing this.

Couple additional thoughts - though I'm a bit LATE to this party!:

1) You talk about a "double under head cam setup" - that actuates the valves via buckets. That would mean two cams in the block, but still a flathead. I can't picture where you're going to run/install dual cams and what advantage that could bring to an engine that is still a flathead. There is nothing to be gained by an additional cam that runs under the head. There is no real problem obtaining a cam profile that is big enough for higher horsepower and/or to have a valve/spring combination that will handle any RPM you can throw at it. With the usage of titanium valves, roller lifters, modern springs, and a custom billet cam core - you can get all the cam you need to fit into the stock location (with bigger front and center cam bearings).

2) Ronnie has covered the most practical way to increase the strength/longevity of the lower end. The #1 requirement is for a custom billet crank, custom billet rods and a main support system - that is mandatory no matter how many mains you're running. I see no real reason for 5 mains for a naturally aspirated motor.

3) Outside of the above, the other big issue for a flathead is doing all the work necessary to get enough air into it to make HP (especially if you're NA and on gas). Hopefully you've spent a LOT of time learning about the level of porting and port-rework, head designs, chamber designs, piston designs, valve designs, etc. - needed to support the air-flow necessary to make HP north of 300.

Lots of things have been tried over the years - though without a blower and even with a power adder (nitro, nitrous, etc), you'll be limited to the amount of air/oxygen you can get into the motor. My suggestion is to spend as much time as you possibly can in this area - as without big flow, you won't make big HP . . . regardless of the cam(s), lower-end, etc.. You'll need to experiment on some junk blocks and seek/obtain as much information as possible in the areas of "getting flow" into a flathead.

There is a whole world of research for proven designs as well as experimentation required to come up with designs/approaches that can support the flow needed for higher HP levels. If you really want to support more flow, (especially on a NA motor) you'll probably be welding on the block to change port sizes, locations, etc.. You'll also need to have a plan/design for intake/exhaust systems to support all of this. My bet is that you'll be running fuel injection on the intake side.

Okay . . . enough out of me . . . have way too much to do today!

Good luck to all chasing these dreams . . .
B&S

 

You are correct. Some of the work was done on that. The final align bore was done on an AMC L2500.

 

Yeah, at the machine shop that does all my work, they frequently have to weld up/redo the mains saddles in various aluminum racing blocks as well as cam bearing bores - a 90-degree angle head is used (when it can be) for all the initial roughing/boring operations, then the saddles or cam tunnels are finished on an align bore/hone machines.

 

I had in my possession (for a little while) a Kong girdle pattern for a flatty, It seemed from memory to bolt to the entire sump flange bolting to the 3 mains... Facinating reading here!

 

Very interesting! It didn’t occur to me that I could rough it out myself but I’ll have to put more thought into the line boring.

 

I always wanted to try bolting on a pair of 2.3 Pinto heads on a flathead.

 

My flathead is just a blown street application but I still spent some money on the mains to hold the bottom together. These are H&H CNC mains. I havent looked at the picture in some time. It is very open in there!

 

Looks like 1&3 are backwards!

 

I drive in reverse a lot.

 

Just ask & you will get results, a stroll through the Speedway Museum will further fuel the innovative past, while Ronnie Roadster breathes new life to an old tradition for at least another generation or two.