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Technical 60 Rambler front disc brakes

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Bullit68, Jun 15, 2021.

  1. Bullit68
    Joined: Sep 16, 2009
    Posts: 171

    Bullit68
    Member
    from Verona, PA

    I have a 1960 Rambler American that I am attempting to put front disc brakes on. I bought the Scarebird brackets and related parts. GM calipers and Ford Sportrac rotors. This kit is designed for 64 and up cars. The American has the short and narrow wheelbase, so the tie rod ends are outward and fit between the stock drums and wheels. So with the new brackets and spacers for the spindle, the rotor hits the tie rod end and steering arm. These AMC cars have the bolt on spindle, so my logic is to make a spacer to move the spindle outward for clearance. 975EB433-6334-4A58-8E91-3AD6E1886A33.jpeg ACEBCC63-9ABE-4EFE-9328-AE91E63FAC23.jpeg 4C880B17-32D6-46F2-9D02-85C167E2373F.jpeg
     
  2. Bullit68
    Joined: Sep 16, 2009
    Posts: 171

    Bullit68
    Member
    from Verona, PA

    I first thought about changing those steering arms for later style ones. Something not curved that way, but may upset the geometry.
     
  3. Bullit68
    Joined: Sep 16, 2009
    Posts: 171

    Bullit68
    Member
    from Verona, PA

    Pics of the car… needs a little more braking up front with the sbc 400
     

    Attached Files:

  4. oldiron 440
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 3,301

    oldiron 440
    Member

    My concern is that the spacers will cause bump steer. A positive offset wheel would counteract the spacers.
     
    jimmy six, Blues4U and Elcohaulic like this.

  5. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,264

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    How big of a spacer are we talking here?
     
  6. Bullit68
    Joined: Sep 16, 2009
    Posts: 171

    Bullit68
    Member
    from Verona, PA

    Maybe half an inch.
     
  7. Elcohaulic
    Joined: Dec 27, 2017
    Posts: 2,212

    Elcohaulic

    You will love the front discs, especially with all the steep hills we have around here.

    Does your Nash have a power brake booster?
     
  8. Could the bracket be relieved to clear the arm? Easy as pie if you have a buddy in the machine shop biz...
     
  9. Just trying to help here, this is a lost cause. PM me and I'll fire-sale it off your hands.
     
  10. rusty rocket
    Joined: Oct 30, 2011
    Posts: 5,053

    rusty rocket
    Member

    Farna will chime in and get you on the right path. He’s the Nash,rambler, amc guru.
     
  11. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 7,589

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    Do some research on the term "Scrub Radius". What you're doing will result in an increasing the scrub radius of the car. The brackets alone will push the radius out, adding a spacer will push it out even further. The steering arms are designed the way they are to provide correct Ackerman Angle for the steering geometry, if you changed that you'd screw up the geometry.
     
  12. Bullit68
    Joined: Sep 16, 2009
    Posts: 171

    Bullit68
    Member
    from Verona, PA

    The brackets aren’t pushing anything out farther than the original backing plate for the drum brakes. Seems like spacing the spindle out would be no different than running a wider wheel. The pivot points of the steering remain in original location. I don’t know, that’s why I’m asking… this style spndle bolts on different than most cars.
     
  13. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 12,604

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    Many of the conversion kits on the market make vehicles track wider. Do you know if this kit has added any more to the stock track all ready?
     
  14. Rynothealbino
    Joined: Mar 23, 2009
    Posts: 396

    Rynothealbino
    Member

    Just to be clear, the steering arm / tie rod end hits the actual disc rotor? Or is the bracket itself hitting something? Yes, you can use a spacer between the spindle and upright (good way to lower it while you are at it), but it will also affect scrub radius as others have mentioned. Do you have a picture with the disc installed? You could throw washers underneath the rotor hat to figure out how much things need to move to give us a better idea. Mock up only.
     
  15. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 12,604

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    Like this...
    [​IMG]

    Here's the whole thread > https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/19years-old-first-build-63-rambler.1208176/
     
    Greenblade likes this.
  16. Rynothealbino
    Joined: Mar 23, 2009
    Posts: 396

    Rynothealbino
    Member

    ^^^That's the one I was thinking of. Just lower it with the spacer / lowering thing till the steering clears the bottom of the rotor :)
     
  17. Bullit68
    Joined: Sep 16, 2009
    Posts: 171

    Bullit68
    Member
    from Verona, PA

    Yes, rotor hits the steering arm/outer tie rod. The bracket for the calipers is good so far. In one of the pics I tried to show from top down. I can take some more pics to show the problem
     
  18. Bullit68
    Joined: Sep 16, 2009
    Posts: 171

    Bullit68
    Member
    from Verona, PA

    Johnny Gee Yes, something like that! I need to keep the bracket and the spindle in same position to each other, but move them outward to clear the steering arm. My car is front steer, the arms, center link, tie rods, all are forward of control arms.
     
  19. cfmvw
    Joined: Aug 24, 2015
    Posts: 977

    cfmvw
    Member

    I wonder if Scarebird would have any recommendations?
     
  20. Bullit68
    Joined: Sep 16, 2009
    Posts: 171

    Bullit68
    Member
    from Verona, PA

    The kit said 64 and up, but a lot of online chatter said it would work….
     
  21. Bullit68
    Joined: Sep 16, 2009
    Posts: 171

    Bullit68
    Member
    from Verona, PA

    Here is the spacer/adapter for the spindle to use the Ford rotors

    721B4884-E5F0-4AA1-BD66-72FFA4E912B4.jpeg C173D11E-714D-468B-A01D-4E6FB6568BCA.jpeg B0E737A3-4A7A-4511-ADBD-24ADC56C313F.jpeg 334F5394-8FCF-4369-8C9C-3151E1054E3E.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2021
  22. Bullit68
    Joined: Sep 16, 2009
    Posts: 171

    Bullit68
    Member
    from Verona, PA

    So, the best I can figure, starting to look like It needs about an inch.
     

    Attached Files:

  23. Bullit68
    Joined: Sep 16, 2009
    Posts: 171

    Bullit68
    Member
    from Verona, PA

    I will remove the spindle, get longer bolts, and figure out the spacing. Mock up the rotor on the spindle with the bearings, and see what is needed to clear tie rod.
     
  24. brading
    Joined: Sep 9, 2019
    Posts: 704

    brading
    Member

    So you put the spacer on and this pushes the inner bearing out 1/2" which pushes outer bearing 1/2" which appears to put some of the outer bearing on the treaded bit, can out gets the nut on safely. Or am I missing something here.
     
  25. Bullit68
    Joined: Sep 16, 2009
    Posts: 171

    Bullit68
    Member
    from Verona, PA

    The spacer on the spindle doesn’t push the inner bearing outward, just an adapter, to adjust for a different size bearing. One that is used with the rotor.
     
  26. brading
    Joined: Sep 9, 2019
    Posts: 704

    brading
    Member

    Thanks for the reply Bullit68 now I understand.
     
  27. A 1" spacer per side? I dunno. Put a call or email into Scarebird, maybe he has an alternate rotor he can recommend. I imagine he has catalogs galore with dimensions. Me? I'd be considering cutting a step (with a radius) into the rotor. As long as it didn't impact where the pad rides on the rotor.
     
  28. Bullit68
    Joined: Sep 16, 2009
    Posts: 171

    Bullit68
    Member
    from Verona, PA

    Okay, made some progress this evening. First off, I want to address the scrub radius issue. I am no expert, believe me! The car has a GM 10 bolt rear end under it. Whoever built it wanted to use the Nova wheels on all four corners. To do that on the front, adapters were used. Rambler front drums use a 4.5” bolt pattern. They are over an inch and a quarter thick! See pics.
     

    Attached Files:

  29. Bullit68
    Joined: Sep 16, 2009
    Posts: 171

    Bullit68
    Member
    from Verona, PA

    I unbolted the spindle, and found some longer bolts. Found some spacers and washers to find exact width needed to keep rotor from hitting tie rod/steering arm. Spacer needs to
    be 1-1/16” for clearance. Remember, the adapter for the Chevy wheels are wider. I have driven the car, just up and down the street a few times. When I brought it home, it had an issue with the brakes, but I fixed that. Already had ordered all these parts for disc conversion.
     

    Attached Files:

  30. Bullit68
    Joined: Sep 16, 2009
    Posts: 171

    Bullit68
    Member
    from Verona, PA

    With the Scarebird bracket and caliper on, no clearance issues anywhere with them. Of course I had to put a wheel on, but more importantly, to check tie rod clearance also. All good! So what I’m actually ending up with is some positive scrub, from what I’ve read.
     

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