https://www.melling.com/product/camshafts/ At one time Perfect Circle and TRW also offered cams and lifters. https://www.ebay.com/itm/184713002837?epid=227377902&hash=item2b01c0bf55:g:VLUAAOSwkztgT-sN https://www.ebay.com/itm/3339054701...1291&msclkid=34577a20c3d81ccba7aa1a9269b7abd2
What lifters did you use? I have read a couple items about the bottom of new(probably knock off) lifters not being flat and thus not being able to spin on the cam.
Seen a lot of roller's on roller lifter's go bad on OT engines and take the cam with them. Nothing is bulletproof.
I don’t buy all of the zinc causing failures crap. I didn’t even know I was supposed to break cams in years ago, we just busted them off and they lived. I think that the cam companies are buying blanks these days made from inferior materials. They feed the consumer the line about it being the fault of the oil, thus releasing them from liability. They roll the dice just hoping that the failures are few and far between. If they have to warranty one, they ask all kinds of silly questions, did you use the right oil, did you have assembly lube, was it our specific assembly lube, did you use break in springs, did you have your Pastor pray over it? No? Oh sorry, you should have.....
You got proof? Heres a statement from Mike Jones cams who's supplies cams to Nascar and many top drag and circle track teams Re: How is the camshaft supply today. Report Quote Like Post by CamKing » Thu May 27, 2021 9:55 am There's 3 major Cam Core suppliers in the US. All their manufacturing facilities were closed down for 6+ months, and all are having issues, getting employees to come back to work. While they weren't manufacturing, they were selling what inventory they had. All the cam companies bought up what they could, but had to use most of their inventory. With the cam core manufacturers inventory depleted, and the cam companies inventory depleted, the core manufacturers are having a hard time keeping up with their orders, and being short staffed isn't helping. I have cam cores that have been on order, for almost a year. I've sold almost all of our HARDKORE Tool Steel cores, because they were only available option. As for flat tappet lifters, it's about the same. I only sell US made lifters, and the largest manufacturer on flat tappet lifters in the US, was closed for months. While they were closed, the U.S. foundry that made the lifter blanks, went out of business. This meant the lifter manufacturer had to find a new U.S. foundry, and pay to have all new tooling made for each part#. This about doubled the cost of the lifters.
I had problems with my SBC eating cam lobes a couple of years ago. Lost 2 in fast succession. The first one failed in 17 minutes still in the break in cycle. Took a 1/16" off the bottom of the lifter. I was not happy. Did a complete tear down, clean and inspect and found no obvious problems. Put a new cam and lifters in (from the same popular source) and got though to 25 minutes of total run time and had another failure. Same thing with massive wear on the lifter. Built another engine using a cam from the same manufacturer but paid more (much more) and purchased AC Delco lifters for this build. So far I have about 2 years on this engine with no cam problems. What I am trying to say here is do not put all of the blame on the oil or the cams, look at the quality (or lack of ) of the lifters. Note the SBC lifters that have the groove near the bottom of the lifter have always been good to me .
As mentioned earlier, the attempt at "flushing" the engine was likely the demise of the new cam. I have taken a couple of engines apart that have had cam failures and the debris is all the way through the engine and buried into the pistons scratching the walls. If your lucky to catch it early enough, you might save it with just a complete disassembly and cleaning. If not caught when it first happens (most likely scenario for most folk), you'll be replacing everything, including all of the bearings and pistons. But my point to all this was, attempting to flush as you did is not near sufficient enough. Roller cams are pricey, the can still fail, like any mechanical part. But it is unlikely to have such a failure early out of the gate. The USA made hyd roller lifters in my OT big block cost more than my aftermarket rods and pistons together. Tough nugget to swallow, but even tougher to replace a newly rebuilt engine because of junk parts.
SBC "cam walk" is not unheard of. I experienced it in a 1st gen. SBC 350. The cam was well broken in, not new. I've not had reason to check in years, but aftermarket cam buttons and thicker timing covers were available to minimize cam walk.
And the length was off. The lunatti cam I used for the caddy build came with lifters. They were completely flat on bottom and .011 shorter. I went back and checked my original lifters. They had a slight “arc” on the bottom. The CADCO guys supplied me with a correct lifter. .011 length issue is huge for a non-adjustable rocker set up. I guess they get away with it on other engines. I would say most cam and lifter issues come down to incorrect lifter shape and hardness. There’s lots of info out there on hardness issues with new lifters. All the zinc in the world won’t help it. Too much zinc is bad as well. I’ve learned more from this caddy build than I have on any other engine we put together.
"I've got ideas to make more money for our stockholders, boss: Let's use cheaper materials, short-cut the machining and heat treating processes, and forgo the QC! We'll make a killing!!!" It would be interesting to see a side-by-side comparison of machine finish and hardness of a bunch of cams and lifters from various manufacturers. Something has changed over the years, because I can guarantee the average Joe didn't strip an hot tank his block when he replaced a cam, back in the '50s, '60s and '70s. I'm also skeptical of the current break in recommendations (other than oil) that are soooo detailed: how many cams were installed and put back into service without running 20 minutes at 2,000 rpm, etc? refer to Roothawg above...
When I started in this industry in 1990, I was working on school buses. Most with 366 Chevrolet engines, it was not uncommon back then to lose one camshaft a year in a fleet of 35 buses. I changed a few cams and lifters back then and we never disassembled engines for that. Replace cam, lifters, and timing set, change the oil and filter, back into service it went. We never had problems with the repaired engines, and I sure don’t remember the type of break in procedures they want today. Even today, if a diesel loses a cam, mostly roller, we don’t completely tear down the engine. Do you guys believe that when engines in new cars under warranty have cam troubles that warranty pays for complete engine disassembly? Nope, sorry, only the failed parts are replaced. Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
It just depends where all the metal debris goes. Maybe it gets caught in the filter, and the problem gets removed. I had a roller lifter in my 426 fail last year while idling. (about 200 miles on it) It ran maybe a minute after I heard it 'til I got it shut down. Upon teardown, There was metal all down into the pan and pump. Also, 1 wrist pin/pin bore was so torn up, it was difficult to swivel by hand. If I had left it together, how long would it run? On a cheap beater, maybe gambling is ok. I'm no gambler.
We changed a lot of SBC cams in the late 70's /early 80's without doing anything special other than an oil and filter change and recommend they come back in 500 miles for another most never did.
AMEN BROTHER. Where a guy wants to stick with the “traditional hotrod “ concept, it is suddenly scary to not go with a roller cam? Agree...something has changed, and not for the better.
Here's an article from 2010 that I wish I read in 2010. http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/corp-0808-worn-down-engines
Just flushing engine after a bad cam is like to cleaning explosive diarrhea with one square 0f TP. I've done maybe 40 FT cams, never lost one. Back in 1973, smart auto parts places slid you a tube of cam lube across the counter with the cam. Not everyone was hip to them and most cam kits didn't come with it. General assembly, I use Ultra Slick by Permatex. It stays where you put it. Oil is critical, many engine builders are super anal about what they recommend. The last one I did was with VR1 10W30, you need the oil to flow immediately. Even decades back I pre-oiled every cam change. Now I use a gauge (on the engine stand) to make sure I have good oil pressure before I fire it. Read what the cam maker recommends and take it like the Bible chapter and verse. Most say to use their additive, but I use what I can get locally. With dual-springs, you can take out the middle one for the break-in to get lesser pressure on the cam. I go with a conservative lash of a 1/4 turn and do the final adjustment after the break-in. I dump the oil and filter. I like Wix, AC Delco or Moroso filters. The longer ones hold more oil. How did the lifters look in the bad lobe locations? If the bottoms are borked, they are not spinning in the lifter bores. I always make sure mine spin. I believe my engine builder runs a hone through them as part of the cleaning process.
I do agree with what has been said about big truck engines and automotive warranty repair as I have and do work in both industries. But I also can not deny what I have seen personally on tear downs of our "hobby" engines. I do assemble engines for others (I don't claim to be any type of expert), and one of the best recommendations I can make is a magnetic drain plug. Everyone has their own preferences and theories, that will never change unlike the quality parts and oils we had back 20+ years ago. When I put an engine together nowadays, the cam bearings go in first and the cam is spun to assure free-ness (big block Mopars are notorious for cam bearing binding issues--My machinist says Y-blocks are just as bad) Then the lifters are checked that they have a crown - or convex shape to the bottom, they are kept in an order from the box and put into the engine with a paint dab on them and the cam is spun over to assure all the lifters spin. If not, the issue needs to be fixed right there and then, no question. It may be as simple as just swapping a couple of lifters, or running a hone down the lifter bore, which then needs to have the galleys all cleaned out again. Once everything is kosher, I then remove the lifters, and keep them in order in the box and the build continues. It's almost sad we have to spend so much time checking these things today, but I can tell you first hand it's hard to swallow a bunch of dollars yourself when your doing this stuff for others. Your two cents may vary from mine.
When I wiped a lobe on my BBC the filings were everywhere throughout the motor including the main and rod bearings. The only way to be certain that it’s good to go is complete disassembly and fanatically cleaning oil passages.
If your engine has an oil filter, How is all this metal getting back into the oil? I have flushed a few engines with bad cams and they continued to run for years after new parts and oil was installed. The last one I placed a 80 lb pull magnet on the outside of the oil pan right under the oil pick screen and a second magnet on the oil filter. Any oil passing the magnet will get the remaining bits pulled out of it. Both engines had cheap lifters, soft enough a file cut them really easy.
Large entities that prescribe shoddy repairs ( putting engines back in service with compromised systems) have bean counters who tell them the most cost effective way to proceed . They're not concerned with the repaired unit having a shortened service life as long as. , from a financial standpoint, they come out even or ahead. . Theirs is quite a different scenario than a hot rodder , car collector , performance engine builder , mechanic with a conscience ( other than the flipper) .
When the filter goes into bypass (when the oil is cold and at high rpms, or when the filter is full) unfiltered oil is allowed into the engine.
Only if you drive em a lot. The way most people drive their collector car (not much at all) you can live with issues
The Jalopy Journal
