All the ethanol causes problems, no matter what state you’re in. Especially if you let it sit in a vehicle a while. It will leave deposits in carburetors, and will kill some kinds of rubber in fuel systems. That’s why they had to change the rubber used in fuel systems when the ethanol started being used. It may not happen overnight, but damage happens. The good thing is we can now compensate for it and adapt older fuel systems with new pieces resistant to ethanol. I’ve taken older carbs apart and the bowls would have a white, powdered substance in the bottom, after a good cleaning in carb dip they worked fine. That white stuff was probably dried up additives added to the gas at the terminal. Cars that are driven regularly probably don’t have that problem as much as the gas never dries in the carb.
So suppose I take one of my modified vintage lumps that runs nicely in rural NY state on 91 octane out to California and use your 91 . Both are 10 percent alcohol, Am I going to notice a difference? like detonation or stalling at idle in hot weather or a loss of power?
There are still a lot of carbureted cars roaming the streets of California. I can't speak for all of their owners because you can't compare one car to another. Not all have the same fuel requirements. However, if you don't live in California, don't often buy California pump gas, why are you even replying to the OP? When building an engine for the street, regardless of where you live, you should first consider how well that engine will run on the gasoline that's available in your neck of the woods.
Wrong- "A" problem, but not ALL the problem. CA "reformulated" gas is different, not in a good way unless you're a tree-hugger, and more expensive on top of it. As 55blacktie said, live in our shoes for a while and then you can tell us all about it
Not exactly. What I was politely trying to say is, don't reply to OP if you don't know what you are talking about. I've lived in California all of my 66 years; therefore, I know I'm qualified to reply to OP.
This has become a stupid discussion with a lot of people irate over nothing that can be done. Time to close it down.
When Im in Wisconsin I can find 93 octane.In Calif only 91 in the eastern sierra nevada area.Theres next to no alcohol free gas in Northern Calif. Its harder on my snow blower,chain saw,leaf blower than it is on the cars.Storage is hard on carbs if you leave fuel in unless its true fuel with Stabil in it.
Born and raised in southern California.my dad owned a gas station and my uncle's own a 76 that practically grew up in the only real change when ethanol and detergents were added is that it ate away at really old carbs that were soft metal, and carbs that had been acid dipped to many times from a rebuild shop just my two cents
Our busiest fuel stations in my area get deliveries every single day. The ones off of the beaten track get them every other day. If I go two blocks up the hill behind my house I can see the closest tank farm attached to a refinery. The next one out is just a few more miles up the road. I am not sure how phase-separation would play into the equation here. The turnover rate is just too high. I drive or ride the snot out of 5 of the 6 vehicles that I own, year round. Number 6 is still under construction. If you can't drive it, drain it. If you live in an area where there is so little fuel turnover that there is actually phase separation from groundwater contamination, report the station to the proper authorities, and don't buy fuel there. I have a feeling that if a few of you spent less time complaining about fuel, and less time bashing California, and more time actually driving, not only would most of your fuel issues clear up, but you'd also be a lot happier. Oh, and if you have Jay Leno money, pay someone to drive your cars.
Hello, The only drawback to California gasoline was an incident when running a brand new Mercury 4 hp motor on our small, fast racing sailboat. The gasoline was from the local station, highest octane rating recommended by the biggest outboard dealer in So Cal from Newport Beach. He said the gas would work well in this brand of motor. (similar motor to Toshiba, Honda, and others) So, out we went about 10 miles out and there was plenty of gas in the gas container feeding the motor. The motor fired up, the reverse was good and out of the harbor we went to the sail raising spot upwind. Then the fun started all over the coastline and deep into the ocean. The winds were perfect all day. When it was time to come in, we sailed to the position for the sail take down and started the motor. Well, we tried to start the motor. It took several tries of pulling on the cord to get it to fire up in the correct start up procedure. All the while bobbing up against the wind and waves. The sail flapping, ready to come down, but not until the motor was up and running. We could have sailed into the harbor and then do the last minute sail drop as we entered the slip, but not today. I kept at the start procedure, while my wife turned the boat around to sail out with the wind. After several sweat building tension mounting tries, it finally fired up and was running ok, but at least it was running. So we headed back to the sail drop area and motored in after dropping the sails. The welcome relief of a running motor was all smiles on our faces. Jnaki The motor took us back to the boat slip and the next time we went out, it fired up well. But, again, all day sailing and then getting ready to drop the final sails was met with a no fire up of the new Mercury motor. Now, this day was 5-6 foot swells and the wind was a little stronger. So, the conditions were not good, bobbing up and down waiting to fire up. After we finally got into the slip, I took the motor out and went back to the dealer to tell him of the problem. When I walked into the service shop area, there were several 4 hp Honda motors, Toshiba motors and of course the 4 HP Mercury motors, all lined up against the showroom wall, waiting their turn for the mechanics. The mechanic said the rash of non starting motors was a problem since changing to the new gasoline. The sludge build up inside of the teeny injector port was getting clogged up and they all needed a clean out or if the injector was too clogged up, a new one was put in place. He said that this was the biggest problem for these smaller 4-6 hp outboard motors, with the new gas sold all over So Cal. So, our solution was to go out and buy a 3-4 hp Torqeedo Electric Motor long shaft version (equivalent to a 6 hp gas motor) and battery for our installation. We even bought an extra battery to extend our motor allowance out on the water, from port to port. That gave us instant starts in any weather and waves and powered us back to the harbor and safe dock slip. The battery was easily changeable and it could be done even during a big bobbing sailboat motion. Small gasoline outboard motors...the gas affected everything. Regular car motors, they all ran like perfect tuning, every time... never stumbling, instant power, etc. Go figure...
What's different about it? Be specific. Is it the RPV? Is it the percentage of ethanol? Is it the VOC levels? How about some numbers, not just handwaving? I drive all over the country in old cars, including lots of miles in California, and I'm pretty familiar with the problems folks have with fuel. When I'm in the more eastern states, I can buy 93 octane, but not out west. In the rocky mountains, 85 is usually the lowest octane, not 87, simply because at the higher elevations, less octane is needed to prevent pinging. 10% ethanol is everywhere, it's not a California thing. How much traveling have you done in your hot rods?
On the advice of my Honda parts guy I've taken to using sunnco gas in the two 90's, no more start and run problems, my brother uses av gas in the pony motors on the older Cat tractors, works very well.
I don't get it, either. I don't just drive or ride my vehicles all over the place. I also work for a very large global automaker. You'd think that we might have noticed "all of these problems" that people are claiming exist. We don't seem to have any record of it, at the corporate, or dealer levels. Sure, Ethanol introduces some issues, but the automakers knew it would, and compensated. Many of us did too. It appears that many did not. I recalibrated my equipment to 14.2:1, instead of 14.7:1, replaced my rubber hoses with fluoroelastomer ones (Viton), and moved on. If phase-separation were an actual issue, it would be all over the news, as that would hit an EFI vehicle just as hard as a carbureted one. Yeah, it could happen, but in California especially that would get that gas station closed, possibly permanently, and fined, and rightly so. I would question the sanity of anyone defending allowing groundwater to seep into underground fuel tanks.
For those unfamiliar with how fuel station construction works, here is a good video: In California, and in many other states, the current standard is for a lined pit, seamless tanks, and perimeter monitoring wells. It is pretty straightforward, water in fuel: CLOSED. Fuel found in a monitoring well: CLOSED. Everything else in this thread is an issue of personal responsibility. The fuel that you can get is the fuel that you can get. Today it is E10. tomorrow it might be E100, or Hydrogen, or harvested cow farts. It is up to you to adapt, so man-up, and move on. If your outboard motor, chain saw, snow blower, or margarita mixer is having trouble with fuel, that does not belong on this board. This thread needs to be closed.
As @gimpyshotrods said, The Automakers watch this stuff closely. when Jaguar came out with their V8 in 97/98 we had huge issues with the Nikasil liners ( a spray on coating on the aluminum instead of a liner in there aluminum blocks). Well.... in colder climates the E.C.M was not calibrated correctly and the engine would flood, do this a few times and it would scuff the nikasil and the engine would burn oil. took a while for jag to figure out North American gas is a bit dirtier then European gas and it gets dang cold in the North. they issued a silent recall all effected engines got replaced even on 10 year old cars ( one of those recalls where they don’t send out a bulletin but if you come into the dealer with issues they fix it for free.) and problem solved, sort of. anyways, yes you can get bad gas , but to say it’s a rampant issue is aluminum foil hat territory. and in the great state of Cali-Forn-I-Aye where most environmental laws start from I simply can’t see it happening.
The Chevron station on the corner of Lombard and Laguna Streets, here in San Francisco is on of the busiest in the city. On a busy Summer day they sometimes run out of regular gas, and they get daily deliveries. If there were even the slightest issue with some of the gas in that single tank, CA-101 would be littered with disabled vehicles, and that station would be on-the-hook for fixing all of them. I almost always buy fuel there when I am close to home. In 21-years of buying there, with everything from hand-crank and kick-start, to modern twin-turbo EFI, I have had zero issues. Sure, the plural of the word anecdote is not data. Show me a statistically significant, peer-reviewed body of data to back up these claims, and I will admit that I am wrong here.
This is what I’m saying @gimpyshotrods !! It’s NOT a rampant issue. do things happen? Yes they do. a few years ago in downtown Toronto there was a gas station that had “ bad gas” it was proven and a whack load of cars had issues, the article was not so much about the station but the mechanics and dealerships fixing these cars. quotes of anything from, drain fuel tank, replace filters and do an injection flush. To new pump new injectors new this that and the other $$$$$ I’m not sure you fully read my post . Yes it’s possible but not rampant , not an everyday occurrence or even monthly. I’m sure someone could run a report across North America on “ bad gas” and you might get a handful of instances over a full year.
When I lived in Michigan I could get straight gas at BP stations, drove my OT late model Mustang cross country to Washington. I could usually knock down 28 mpg, on the trip stopped and refueled mileage dropped to 23 mpg, another stop was able to get ethanol free and back up to 28. On Washington it is all with some % ethanol content. Was doing work with Ford at one of their proving grounds and one of the test engineers said that was pretty common. Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Wow...getting some chest pounding going on here....... Well I don't know anything about California gas...nor do I care ...I live in Oregon. But I do have a friend thats a Engineer...but sorry I can't talk about what he does.....he would have to kill me if I did. And I also used to work road construction and rock quaries operating them big toys that you spoke of...and yes they burn lots of fuel. But then I got a real job .....with bigger toys...bigger and more powerful multiple engines ....and alot more fuel....and it floated on water.....cool. Man it was great...standing between two 16 cylinder cat diesels putting out 2,400 HP to twin screws...and behind them two 6 cylinder Detroit diesels generator power plants. All just a humming a nice pitch at up throttle.....with a barge in tow...that I can't talk about or.....to a destination that I can't talk about....all was good ...til that one trip...out to sea...on a 91ft tug...14' seas Capt. said that ain't nothing , then latter he told me that in all his years he had never seen a guy as Green in color as I was.......yep 16 hrs of trying to walk and do your duties...witch included standing ,trying to, at a control panel in the engine room pushing buttons and flipping switches all to transfer and keep its 71,326 gallons, total ,diesel fuel balanced between 6 fuel tanks for proper ballast...and throwing up anything that would come up. Ya ...was a good 3+ year run til then.....now Im back with the little toys.and not ashamed of it...no chest pounding..just saying. There's always somebody thats been there or done that more than others.......I find that the ones that can really stand behind there claims.......are not the ones speaking out about them selves. Sent from my SM-T307U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
What does photos of off road Diesel equipment have to do with California gasoline? So far all we have is opinions and 25 year old government information, yes I read it..but no comparison facts that might show something.. Oh well....I don't live in California...
Yeah but it looks like reformulated gas is used (or was?) in other states, including NY https://www.epa.gov/gasoline-standards/reformulated-gasoline#:~:text=Reformulated gasoline (RFG) is gasoline,1990 Clean Air Act amendments. I have the usual problems with gas but can't compare since my parole won't allow me to leave the state.
Of course I opened the link and read the paper, and found that it describes the MTBE gas that was used 20 years ago, and long ago discontinued. And we had the same gas here in AZ at the time, no different from California. It has nothing to do with what I think of myself, it has to do with actually reading and understanding the facts, yourself, not relying on what your friends tell you.
The gas company’s mix tolulene (paint thinners)and other solvents in and out of gas to extend it and to compensate for temperatures,, put that on top of the fluctuation of prices,,,, with expansion and subtraction of fuel weights ( and that’s how they calculate the prices) it’s hard to balance plain fuel for cars, I work in aviation and we get it at a standard, every time,,,, I set all my cars up to be able to chew E85 which is over here 85% ethanol ,,, it’s 105 to 108 octaine, it makes my OT LS3 Daily go like a cut cat , but seems to evaporate out of the tank when it sits,,,if you set the carbs up for it from the start it works good,,,, E85 is nice high comp fuel, and it was supposed to be cheaper over here ,it hasn’t happened and it’s as expensive as premium,,,, but it runs better with it yet chews more fuel,,,, so I guess I’ve answered nothing,,, just build toward bio fuels as we won’t have to convert to Tesla power
Yes, but not used in the rural parts of NY as far as I know...We have the usual 10 percent ethanol in grades 87-93.. But many gas stations sell non ethanol 90 octane that good if your engine can use it without detonation. For you guys who think gasoline is not part of hot rodding, think again because lower octane and carburetor drivability issues absolutely affect modified vintage engines.
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