I'm getting water in my exhaust while running and I cannot for the life of me figure out where it is coming from. let me give you a little background: I picked up an 8ba to swap into my 29 coupe a while back. I got the motor from a good friend who had pulled it from a running truck 15+ years ago and wanted it out of his shop. I swapped the water pumps, added a distributor, added some used Offy heads (new GRAPH-TITE head gaskets, torques using manual), etc. and got it running. I drove it around for a few hours the first day and it did great! Finally, after all these years of being parked my coupe was back on the road again! I parked it for the night happy as can be and slept like a baby. The next day I was going to meet a friend and decided to take the coupe. I fired it up, pulled it out of the garage, and immediately noticed it was blowing smoke out of the passenger side. I hopped out, ran over, and it was steaming pretty bad. You could even see rusty water debris in the lake pipes as it was idling. I revved it a couple times and it steamed even more. I shut it down, checked the oil, and everything looked fine. I parked it, drove my daily, and racked my brain the next few days thinking about it. My initial thought was that the used Offy heads must have been warped, or the gasket got messed up during installation and it was leaking into the chamber which is why my oil looked fine but exhaust had water. So I pulled the head and found what appeared to be a deteriorated spot in the water jacket near the rear cylinder. The gasket confirmed my suspicions, too (see pic). So, I did what most of you would do; I pulled the other Offy off the driver side, got two new head gaskets(GRAPH-TITE), and put the original heads back on (they looked to be in usable condition). Fired it back up, and it started steaming out of the passenger side again. I pulled the head off, inspected the gasket, and everything looked fine. The oil was still good, no water in it. I started looking for cracks in the block but didn't see any. I magnafluxed it, nothing. I pressure tested it empty and it held pressure (~20 psi). I pressure tested it filled with water and I didn't see any leaks BUT when I rotated the crank over I noticed there was water buildup on the bottom of the cylinder wall on each cylinder as I rotated it around and wiped it up (see pic). Again, oil looked fine with no water. Also, I saw no evidence of leaking air or water during the pressure test into the exhaust ports (headers removed). I'm at a loss here. I really don't want to build a motor for this quite yet so I would really like to get this thing going if possible. Any suggestions?
It takes quite a while to fully burn out the natural moisture from condensation from the new hot air going thru the cold exhaust system. Like, 10 miles or so. did you ever really warm it all up ?
Rusty - This is far more than burning out condensation. The driver side doesn't do it at all, and the passenger side is gurgling out rusty water like a jet boat! Plus, I am in California and this was on a 70 degree day.
After the initial issue, then when you put it back together, how long did it run it b4 you pulled the head again?
I migh5 be wrong but I suspect the head gaskets or at least the gasket installation. It was fine for a few hours the night before,,,,,,so I believe that rules out and cracks in the block . If the block was suspect,,,,,,,it would have started smoking within those few hours of operation,,,,,,not wait until the morning. Clean the deck religiously,,,,,,,there could also be an issue with head,,,,,,warpage maybe . The deck looked pretty nasty considering you just had cleaned it and installed a new gasket . Did you use some sealer with the new gasket,,,,,I m sure you did,,,,get an extra set of eyes to help. I might be wrong,,,,but I really suspect the gasket . Tommy
Hmmm... Did the water in #4 go away after wiping it several times or did it keep coming back? Flatheads require the head gaskets to be retorqued around 3 times after each heating and cooling cycle. Some people use a copper spray on the head gaskets to aid in sealing. I'd probably be looking at that #4 cylinder a little closer.
A few years ago I was asked to go over to a church member's house to help the son replace the head gasket on his sister's O/T car. To clean up the mating surface between block and head the son didn't use the gasket scrapers and razor blades I had brought but instead got the mating surfaces squeaky clean using just a small wire brush and some lacquer thinner in a cup. His process removed even the most microscopic debris without damage to either the block or aluminum head.
If you are getting water into a combustion chamber, that hole should be cleaner than the others. Also if you are getting water into the chamber, you should get exhaust in the coolant/blow water out the radiator. Is that happening? I would be looking for something that's maybe overlooked. Is the head cracked or seeping water. How about taking the exhaust manifold off to see which cylinder is showing where the water is coming from.
Ill try and catch everyone's questions in one post. Between installations, the deck and head were cleaned very well prior to installation. After the cast head was installed, it started steaming within 10 seconds or so of running. Yes, I agree, that image with the gasket shows a piece hanging off is the cylinder that looked sketchy was from the aluminum head. That head has some major pitting and I think it caused that gasket to have an issue there. That head has since been pulled off and a new gasket installed with a cast head and its still sucking water somewhere. I have not done a cylinder leak down test, just the water passage pressure test with air and water. It seemed like I had a bit of water residue on each cylinder after I rotated the crank and wiped it clean. Each time the piston came down, it had a touch of water on the bottom only. I am thinking MAYBE its seeping just a bit from the cork gasket. Possibly. I never checked the coolant for exhaust while it was running. DOH! Regarding installation of the head gasket, I never used anything on the surfaces during installation. It was my impression that they went on dry and everything would be OK if the surfaces are clean. Please school me if this is wrong. I am thinking of trying a different brand head gasket? Not sure. These GRAPH-TITE ones seem decent?
It seems like you are on top of things,,,,,keep trying . I could be wrong,,,,,but looking at the pic,,,,,it seems that the water would mos5 likely enter near the number 4 exhaust valve,,,,,,and then be blown straight out from there . Did you ever run this engine before you changed anything,,,,or was it new you ? I can’t imagine that the block just mysteriously cracked after the head change and short test session,,,,,although I guess stranger things have happened . Keep on it . Tommy
I believe some of the head bolts go into the water passages. Did you use any sealer on the bolts?? Paul in CT
Desoto- Never ran this motor before all the details in post #1. I agree, it seems like its getting in near the rear cylinder exhaust valve but the second gasket with the cast head showed no signs of leakage. odd. Budget - My explanation earlier was poor, these ARE the Best brand GRAPGH-TITE gaskets. On another note, is there any way to clear the sludge from the water chambers? I've soaked each bank in Metal Rescue which has worked good for me in the past for stripping rust. But this seems more of muddy gunk than rust.
We had flathead in our dragster with large crack/hole in right rear exhaust port. Couldn't see it but water sure poured out with engine cold.
Yeah,,,,,I guess there could be a pin hole in there somewhere,,,,,,,but I saw the pic where you pressure tested it. Surely it would show a leak under pressure,,,,,at least I think it should . The next time you put on gaskets,,,,,,put some copper spray on them,,,,,,if it still leaks,,,,,you will know by looking at the gasket and sealer if it’s coming by there anywhere . Good luck man . Tommy
I hate to ask,But have you put a straight edge on the face of the block?On that corner that seems to have gasket sort of blown out,If the block has been dropped on that corner it may be slightly humped up there.Long shot, but worth a look..
I have used Felpro head gaskets on two motors without any problems. I also always use Permatex 59235 high temp thread sealant on each bolt. When I pressure check a block I use 20 psi for 20 minutes.
So let's break this down to a scientific examination. You've got a leak, so test the individual parts that may be leaking. You've eliminated a huge portion of the equation by the pressure test. If it passed, everything from the deck inward should be good (as long as you are confident with that test). If you are not confident in your test, it might be good to run that one again. So, we know that the leak is from the deck upward. Either the deck is wonky and allowing a gasket to not seal, or the head (both sets) is wonky and allowing a gasket to not seal. Yes, most of the head bolts or studs run into the water jacket. But if they seep it is common for the coolant to weep up and past the bolt or nut topside. The head gasket should again prevent the coolant from getting into the cylinder.
I’ve run into a rebuild that began showing rust that came right through the water jacket and entered the cylinder wall. Inspect the those cylinder walls carefully.
Next time you have the head off, try a higher pressure test. Maybe try to get 50 pounds. Can you make a rubber gasket for the pressure plate, as I can't see the cork holding a ton of pressure. At least you only need to test half the block. And, you said you magnafluxed it. How did you do that with the short block completely assembled? Where did you check?
I’ve also seen these crack down in the exhaust port which you wouldn’t be able to see when Maged. The fact that you say your seeing water in all the cylinders would lead one to believe that It would have to be a common entry but could it be just from when the head is pulled and the residual water in the heads is running in? Your pressure testing plate looks good. Is it safe to assume you removed the lower radiator hose and plugged it? And is there a hole in your cork gasket for the air pressure to go through ? I’m not trying to be offensive but I’ve seen were people have forgotten to do that and there was never any pressure were it needed to be. Myself included. I would re pressurize it and spray everything down with dish soap and water. Get the exhaust valves up and pull the header so you can check in there. I’ve probably pressure tested a 1000 heads in my career and you can have a pinhole that will foam up with soap and it takes hours to see it on the gage. Also bang the gauge with your finger. Sounds stupid but I’ve seen cheap gauges stick and it will show pressure then drop when you tap it. And as said get a straight edge on everything. .001 per cylinder is a standard spec on the length of the deck so any more than .004 could be trouble. Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Not to be rude, but that block is a horrible mess. You will never have a good engine with it in that condition. Water passages clogged with rust, cylinder walls, especially #4 full of crud,etc. That thing needs to be dismantled, hot tanked and acid cleaned, then you can start looking for flaws. Looking at the top of the block above the #4 cylinder on the upper left rear corner the water passage looks to be eroded away near the bottom of the passage. It looks awfully thin to me. Not much surface to get a good gasket seal. All head bolts go into water passages. Bolt hole cracks are fairly common. All bolts need to have a good sealer on the threads. I use Teflon pipe dope (NOT tape!).Seals tight and makes them easier to remove. To try to use this engine as is would be a big mistake and you will end up severely disappointed. Sorry if I sound critical but I don't want to see you go through all the work and expense only to have a bad engine.
I test all my blocks at 50 psi. Could be a crack in the exhaust port that only opens when heated. Try a block sealer.
Hey fellas. Was offline all weekend, sorry for the delay. To address some of the questions, yes, both sets of heads were torqued to spec, cycled, torqued, etc. To clarify the images, the first image #0506 is a picture of the head gasket sitting on the deck and the piece that looks to be coming off is the piece of gasket that was compromised by the thing aluminum head I descibed earlier. The deck actually looks pretty good, though I have not ran a straight edge across it. I will do this for sure. I used sealant on the threads each time, cleaning them between head swaps and reapplying. When I magnafluxed it, I took the head off, sprinkled the powder, and used one of those horsehoe style magnaflux deals. It worked, but found no cracks going in any direction (see pic #5486 for flux dust). I still have the water pump on and am using one of those expanding plugs to seal off the radiator hose. Ill try 50psi, but at 25 it shot off like a rocket! I can tighten her down and go higher, but not sure how the cork will last. The cork gasket matches the steel plate with a hole for the air to enter. When I filled it with water, I found the highest head bolt, pulled it, then used a funel to fill it up, then pressurized it. Both held at 20psi for 10+ mins without dropping much. I am gettin a tiny bit of leakage from the plate bolts. I removed the header and saw no signs of water or air blowby. Whats the best way to clean out these water passages without taking the motor apart? Not sure if one of those block sealants will work in this mud trap! And the leaking starts immediately, not when its warm.
Hate to be a naysayer, but I had Merc and ford flathead engines, and all of them either cracked or threw a rod out the side of the block. Bought a 57 Merc with the 368 turnpike cruiser engine and never owned another flathead.
Just an update for anyone that was interested. So since I couldn't find any major issues that stood out, I took the passenger side cylinder head to the local machine shop and had it surfaced. It was wompy and needed it. Got home with my new gasket and installed everything. While conducting the torque sequence, I noticed one of the bolts got tight before it was supposed to. Then I realized the washer beneath it was spinning! I quickly pulled the bolt and realized it was bottoming out on the block! WTF?!?! Well, what happened was when I added the aluminum heads before, I bought all new head bolts that were longer and would accommodate the thicker heads. When I put the cast iron heads back on the bolt bottomed out. I put it all back together (torqued everything to spec and retorqued after each startup/cooldown) and it fired up great. No more water! I've driven it around a bit and haven't had a lick of trouble with it since. So, I think the corner of the aluminum head was leaking before and the cast iron head had the bolt that was too long and wouldn't seal the gasket. Two issues, same symptom. Thanks for the help fellas!
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